Live data from Hacker News

The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

buzzfeednews.com

61–70 of 200 posts

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#61
post #21
post #3

Clearly it was the CDC at fault here, not a few hand picked bureaucrats, not the chain of command, not a president with a penchant for firing people who challenge his authority. What a poorly concocted article. The least the author could do so remind people of the “starve the beast” approach to public utilities that the Republicans have been pursuing for decades. Nope, we’ll just throw the entire CDC under a bus.

There's this strange phenomenon on HN sometimes -- or at least I've noticed it here several times -- where people will somehow manage to condemn the article while arguing for exactly the thesis of the article . That's what you're doing here.

I read the whole article and it is consistent with the parent comment, not yours, in my opinion.

It does mention stupid things done by the Trump administration, but at the end, it describes the CDC failures as "baffling" and presents the blame of an "inept administration" i.e. Trump, as an excuse.

Overall, it seems to be an article about the inexplicable failures of the CDC, with an effort to be "fair and balanced" in covering other factors.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#62
post #55
post #39

"Believing people without symptoms didn't spread the virus, the agency limited testing, discouraged masking..." This is false by Fauci's own account (see below interview) in which he states mask wearing was discouraged in order to secure availability for health workers. This is no small distinction as it raises questions about the importance of public trust/credibility during a health crisis. https://m.youtube.com/wa…

Can you link to the meta-analysis or RCT of mask wearing that were already published in March, or April, or June? But also, see this: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/27/world/europe/coronavirus-...

for covid in particular? it was widely known generally that masks reduce the spread of that class of virus.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This has been disproven by the only good studies we have. Even with zinc and early, it has not been shown to have any effect.

There are zero studies that disprove zinc + early has a strong effect. You are wrong. Also, the lancet study was retracted for flawed methodology, other studies show slight benefit of hydroxychloroquine. There are zero studies that show it has no effect.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/06/05/th...

There's no studies yet. But there aren't any preliminary results that look promising, and the only people who think it is promising also thought hydroxychloroquine was.

So it's pretty unlikely it's going to do anything.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#64
post #17

I hope we do a serious review of the cdc when this is all over. For all the money we give them, they totally failed to "control" the outbreak. It feels like it's devolved into an academic institution and we have enough of those.

IDK the US that well, but if you don't have coercitive power over politicians what can you do. I'm aware that CDC has been criticized for other stuff as well, but in the end they seem to not have that much power. In my country (Spain) it has been a shitshow. Everyone who warned about the upcoming situation was ridiculed and/or insulted in a coordinated effort between government and media. Now the same people is being…

> IDK the US that well

If I can offer a piece of advice in that direction, it is to remember that the US is in fact a union of 50 states, and those states actually have a fair amount of power. The federal government, as powerful as it appears to be, really does lack authority in many areas. While they could absolutely have done a 1000% better job leading the response to the coronavirus, it was always going to fall mostly on the states to do the actual heavy lifting. It's the nature of our political system.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This has been disproven by the only good studies we have. Even with zinc and early, it has not been shown to have any effect.

There are zero studies that disprove zinc + early has a strong effect. You are wrong. Also, the lancet study was retracted for flawed methodology, other studies show slight benefit of hydroxychloroquine. There are zero studies that show it has no effect.

You can’t show that it has zero effect without indefinite numbers of patients enrolled in the study. It hasn’t shown any dramatic improvements in the studies that are there. The rest is a tradeoff between enrolling even more patients into studies to prove small improvements (or not) or to move on and spend resources on finding things that do have a major impact.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#66
One of my pet peeves is the way nobody in the Government is caring about safety on air travel.

I had to fly recently and someone near me was using a CPAP.

Study after study shows that CPAP aerosolizes and spreads virus particles much more rapidly than normal respiration. Various Government agencies warn about this.

- https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/covid19/wp-content/uploads/sites/197...

- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6832307/

- https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/hcp/aero...

- https://em.umaryland.edu/educational_pearls/3741/

I've written (FedEx) to the CEOs of United and American. American didn't answer. United says they're required by law to allow people to use CPAP in-flight.

There's no excuse for this. A person who needs a CPAP is already a high-risk for dying if they contract COVID. Do they want to take down everyone else with them?

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#67
The United States doesn't have effective federal pandemic laws. The federal government looks to the states to manage their own health arenas and in those states many allow county level health departments to run with the ball. This is how you end up with one state doing x and another state next door doing y. It even gets to the county level with a county in a state doing x and the county next to it doing y during a pandemic. The CDC lost the battle before it began.

It was heartening to see everyone sort of pull together to flatten the curve, but with what has happened during the phased reopenings, you'll never have American citizens do it again voluntarily.

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#69
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think spending more on military than the next 10 countries combined can be described as "only" in any way. The highest spender are the US, with $732.0 billion, followed by China with $261.0 billion, then India and Russia with $71.1 and $65.1 billion respectively.

The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire, securing trade routes to allow efficient scales of tech expertise and production. If that military is scaled back or shown to be obsolete/ineffectual, then globalism itself will come into question. The dark ages were caused by the localizing of production, with local feifdoms losing access to specialized technical expertise. To some extent, this is what we see now with…

> The US is filling the role of the Roman Empire

Yeah, and look how that ended.

In fact, its entirely apt cautionary tale because due to taxes and an ever increasing cost of living in Rome proper citizen-soldiers (during the Republic) often went bankrupt and fell into destitute while fighting campaigns from Rome's conquest and returned to see the oligarchy take their fields/land and displaced them further and further out of Rome.

This is the story of Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus, direct descendants of Scipio Africanus (the illustrious Soldier and Savior of the Roman Republic) and the Land/Ag Plebeian reforms they achieved that cost them both their lives after several stints in Politics.

It got to a point that due to land consolidation that it was less expensive to buy the wheat from Egypt, have it transported by boat, and used (often slave labour) to bake the bread then it was to buy a loaf locally. My old History professor went on an amazing rant about this for an hour in one of my Roman History courses when we were discussing the true costs of Imperial Expansion and what is often swept under the rug as a footnote in History, she was old but still pissed because they didn't let her include it in her book.

The World now is ever more interconnected than ever, and one could argue why that is a horrible trade-off both for national security purposes but also for self-reliance reasons as we saw with the PPE shortage and the faulty equipment that came from China. But I fail to see how the West at least would abandon the critical supply chains they have developed in order for Society to function unless we have something like an asteroid collision. Even now the EU as well as Australia, and New Zealand are siding with the US' stance on punishing the CCP's Security Law in Hong Kong that is going to undo the relationship that served as an access point into China via a neutral party.

Are you seriously suggesting that if the US empire scaled back its efforts in those regions then we'd return to the dark ages? Because when I was in Europe Somali pirates were hi-jacking oil tankers and the US didn't intervene, it took the European companies and military to put an end to that entirely by themselves without the need of US involvement.

I think the US is headed for the same fate as Rome as it refuses to learn the same lessons, but if given the choice between China or the US as the Global Superpower I think its the latter that must retain its position as the former is hellbent on a suicidal mission that destroys everything in its path and will commit horrible acts of barbarism and won't hesitate to take the whole World down with it in its folly (see recent cases: Xianjing, Wuhan, Hong Kong and Beijing).

I just hope we can attain a position where the World doesn't need superpowers and can return to at least a mutually beneficial city-state model as COVID has proven we cannot really overcome such huge issues like pandemics (or likely wide scale famines or global catastrophes) at such a scale. I mean governing 300+ million People is hard to conceptualize, but with Nation-States like China and India where it goes into the billions is just unfathomable and failure is the only real outcome in that.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODI1VOOoey0

Re: The CDC lost control of the coronavirus pandemic, then the agency disappeared

#70
post #38

This is classic starve the beast. There is one party that continuously tries to gut government institutions - like putting Betsy Devos to head education, Wheeler to head EPA etc etc and then has the gall to say that government institutions don’t work Who gutted the pandemic response unit?

The CDC’s budget is $1.2 billion. Can you explain why that’s not enough money to provide good advice on managing respiratory viruses? Why it isn’t enough to manage domestic stockpiles? Why it isn’t enough to monitor domestic production of PPE?

Civil servants failed. It had nothing to do with Trump, they failed at the things that their agency was paid to do.

Post reply on HN