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Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

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Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#221

Post by fzeroracer »

throwvid19 wrote: post #180
paulv wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The far-right, on the other hand, I think is a lot more tolerant of at least the notion that "other" speech exists. They'll insult you, make fun, etc., but the compulsion to censor others is far less frequent. The right thinks explicit "censorship", which happens via the community or site owner, is bad. Implicit "censorship", however, which happens when the targets of racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia[0] leave t…

Well put. The Left typically wants to silence/ignore while the Right typically wants to fight/berate about it.

Do you know what happens when people don't want to deal with harassment due to a certain position they hold? It's called self-censorship, and the far right censors people all the same by harassing, berating, demeaning people etc until they leave or censor themselves. That's a common tactic of sites like Voat.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#222

Post by chinesempire »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #202
chinesempire wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the nature of discussion when there is someone who controls the discussion. If I'm having a discussion with people in real life I decide what I accept or not, there's no third party that decides for me what is right. Decentralisation is exactly about that: it empowers you and not someone else to decide what you like to read or not.

> If I'm having a discussion with people in real life I decide what I accept or not, there's no third party that decides for me what is right. Yes, and that works fine because there's no platform there, just a 1 on 1 or small group conversation. You can still easily replicate this, unmoderated, with email or various messaging apps. Once you can talk to potentially hundreds or thousands of people at once, once there's…

It works because I decide.

There's no intrinsical limitation on the number of participants

Don't you like what a user says?

You can ignore them

Don't you like what some instance does, you can block it.

Any platform that is popular has an editorial board and doesn't want you to say things they don't like.

Simple as that.

Newspaper had no comments sections because it's silly to comment the news, they already decide what to publish and what not.

They already chose who to talk to, there's no point in discussing when you can only comment what someone else wants you to talk about.

Have you seen today on HN a post about exactly 40 years ago, when an Italian civil plane, the Itavia Flight 870, was shot down by a fight between NATO and Libyan fighter jets and 81 innocent people died?

You won't, because it's gonna be flagged as politics.

But you're going to read about every cat fight between über rich silicon valley founders because that's not politics for them, it's what they wanna talk about.

Trolling is a problem for the platform, not for the users.

I don't mind trolls, if I can decide who they are and silence them.

If they do it for me, it's censorship.

Censorship is not bad per se, but it's not done in my name, it's only in the platform's interests.

Do platforms ever ask users what do they think about banning someone?

Of course they don't...

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#223

Post by glenstein »

holidaygoose wrote: post #64
MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

>Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented?

This did not used to be the case. It's a relatively extremely recent phenomenon, that I would say only really coalesced around 2014-2015.

It used to be that the wild west of the internet was, to the extent that it reinforced anything at all, a boon to liberal and left wing politics and organizing. And a lot of the cultural aspects weren't co-opted the way they currently are. Gamer culture was surely unconsciously sexist, misogynist, but not to the extent that it is now where it's a full-on reactionary identity. Internet atheists didn't used to be misogynist right-wing trolls, but they are now.

Trolling was just trolling, it wasn't organized into mobs or propaganda in the sophisticated way it is now. Anonymity and revealing one's 'true self' didn't channel it into a cultural current of toxicity that is now established and ready to welcome those impulse and stoke them and use them to nudge a person into a right wing trolling infrastructure.

I think it's been weaponized by state actors and by bad actors who figured out how to use the tools, to turn everything into a nuclear wasteland. I don't believe it inherently disposes anyone toward any particular set of politics necessarily, and it didn't used to be the case that it got channeled in this way.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#224

Post by austincheney »

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

I left Reddit. I got tired of the echo chamber nonsense and deleted my account.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#225

Post by rsynnott »

winstonewert wrote: post #162
holidaygoose wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

I think it is because far-right is far less palatable than far-left. Consider two possible statements: 1. Hitler wasn't that bad. 2. Stalin wasn't that bad. I think, for most people, the first provokes a much more extreme reaction. Both were objectively terrible human beings, but defending Hitler is seen as far more extreme than defending Stalin. This has two effects: Firstly, far-right people are continually kicked…

I think both of those examples would provoke a pretty extreme response in most people, but sincere Stalinists just aren't very common, at all. You see a _bit_ of "Stalinism was actually good" stuff on the internet (weirdly, occasionally from the right; some more confused Russian nationalists have a bit of a Stalin fetish), but you'll see a lot more holocaust denial.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#226

Post by notkaiho »

_8j50 wrote: post #52
notkaiho wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, it's not like you can't create a genuinely anonymous email address for a one-off purpose.

Yes it's actully like that. Those services get blocked but why do I have to use a third party when you can just make emails optional. If many users dont feel comfortable giving up their email, just make it optinal. You cant expect my support when you don't care about forcing me to jump through hoops because you don't care about my privacy preferences.

I'd genuinely be curious as to some statistics about how many users do feel strongly about using an email / generating an email. I get that you feel that way, but to what extent is it a common feeling?

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#227

Post by swebs »

holidaygoose wrote: post #64
MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

It's because mainstream moderated sites don't censor far-left views, so those people have no incentives to move to unmoderated sites. For example, /r/MoreTankieChapo isn't even quarantined.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#228

Post by earthscienceman »

TheGrim-888 wrote: post #218
earthscienceman wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a straight white dude from the rural United States who regularly hangs out in extremely far-left circles in very far-left places... you're out of your mind. I've never once heard a 'leftist' advocate for the murder of men, whites, straight people, conservatives, or rural dwellers (although, to be fair, occasionally the police). However, growing up and still when I visit home, I regularly hear how black people, que…

[flagged]

There's a lot of problems with your comment but I'll stick with the most egregious/shocking point.

Are you really suggesting that confederate leaders are republican heros? And if-so... are you acknowledging that republicans admire and would like to celebrate treasonous bigots that went to war against the United States so that they could own slaves?

Sounds to me like you're admitting that the platform of the republican party is literally that of racists. So, in that way, I understand why these groups would respond to being oppressed by racists with violence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3n-cI4wXCM&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#229

Post by agensaequivocum »

badRNG wrote: post #217
agensaequivocum wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Yes there are a very small minority of people who do call for this I agree with you. We are talking about how targeted groups will demand moderation to avoid persistent targeted harassment from a comparatively small number of people. Conservatives are also often targets of hate. There are black, Jewish, gay, and trans conservatives who are also targeted not for the content of their politics, but due to attributes t…

> Conservatives are also often targets of hate. There are black, Jewish, gay, and trans conservatives who are also targeted not for the content of their politics, but due to attributes they were born with and cannot change. I can always set aside my politics, but one cannot set aside their race, gender identity or ethnic group.

I agree. One thing to note though is it's one thing to remove bad law such as outlawing homosexuality as such and it's another to try to force everyone to promote you're life style. Harassment is bad. One problem is that there is no agreed to standard of harassment. So a lot of the left don't like that as a Catholic I will not promote or think that a homosexual lifestyle is something positive. This is not harassment nor is them disliking Catholics and saying mean things about our people and positions.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#230

Post by augustt »

TheGrim-888 wrote: post #218
earthscienceman wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a straight white dude from the rural United States who regularly hangs out in extremely far-left circles in very far-left places... you're out of your mind. I've never once heard a 'leftist' advocate for the murder of men, whites, straight people, conservatives, or rural dwellers (although, to be fair, occasionally the police). However, growing up and still when I visit home, I regularly hear how black people, que…

[flagged]

Hmm, yes, imagine if a bunch Republicans took over a government building, armed to the teeth. I can't fathom it.
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