Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development • Hacker News Board

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#101

Post by rglullis » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #44

rglullis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's federated, each instance would be a subreddit. Don't like a instances because it is run by a deplorable? Don't subscribe to it. Is a deplorable posting deplorable things on the instances you are subscribed to and trying to piss on your pool? Downvote/mute/ban them.

> Don't like a instances because it is run by a deplorable? Don't subscribe to it. How is that different from how Reddit/Voat currently are?

The difference would be for the deplorable, who now has no "mah free speech" and "reddit is censoring me!!11!!" excuses to fall on and justify its deplorability.

More seriously though, the important thing about ActivityPub is that it removes central points of control. No matter how much you agree/disagree with the governance of Reddit/Facebook/Twitter et caterva, they are just too big for the good of society. Federated systems is one chance to take this power from them and bring to people - if not directly (say, because you don't want the pain of hosting/managing all that crap) at least you can delegate this power to someone closer to you - or at very least to a bigger number of smaller providers who will them have no monopoly and will have to keep your interests first.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#102

Post by Jimjamb98 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:07 PM UTC

as1mov wrote: post #76

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

It's a weird issue honestly. I've been on reddit for almost a decade, and I don't like what it has become. I would love to switch to a better alternative, but the problem is any alternative that pops up seems to be filled with extremists as soon as it starts. This doesn't imply that anyone who wants to leave reddit is a neo-nazi, a lot of us are stuck with reddit because everything else is filled with shit.

It's such a large site now with so many different communities and types of users. My opinion is it has transitioned from a forum to a social media platform. I think it caters to people who like the content side of social media, but do not wish to see people they know in real life (which can evoke jealousy and other negative emotions).

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#103

Post by strombofulous » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

as1mov wrote: post #100

foolfoolz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s extremists on every platform

Agreed, but at least reddit is unique in that it seems to get accused of being accused of both kinds of extremism, Tumble/Twitter/HN seem to think it's a right wing shithole, while the 4chan/Imageboard ilk thinks it's a leftie propaganda machine. That's not the case with the alternatives, most tend to go really hard on one side of the extremism scale (right: voat, left: raddle).

I can't imagine thinking reddit is right-wing in any way whatsoever. Just looking at the front page (/r/all) I counted five explicitly left-leaning posts (on subreddits like /r/whitepeopletwitter), three that alluded to left-leaning subjects in a positive way (such as a post on /r/atheism), and 0 posts that even came close to kind of sounding like it might have been right-leaning. And this doesn't even consider the comments which is where the real hivemind exists.

Yes it hosts /r/the_donald or whatever but reddit as a whole is very left-leaning.

Edit: Hey ya'll instead of downvoting me how about providing some evidence of widespread right-leaning thoughts that aren't isolated to individual subreddits and shamed throughout the rest of reddit? Spoiler: You can't

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#104

Post by jboynyc » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

holidaygoose wrote: post #64

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

You might be interested in what one of the foremost sociologists studying white supremacy online has to say about this: https://contexts.org/articles/the-algorithmic-rise-of-the-al...

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#105

Post by seneca » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

holidaygoose wrote: post #64

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

Maybe I'm naive, but it seems pretty obvious that it's because technology is mostly full of leftists, so they tolerate their own extremists and ban their opponents. Deplatforming has been a tactic of the left for a while now.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#106

Post by badRNG » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:09 PM UTC

holidaygoose wrote: post #64

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

People don't want to be exposed to content that dehumanizes them, argues for their extermination, or targets harassment against them. There are large swaths of the population who are targeted by the far right in this way. These targeted groups simply wont deliberately return to a site that consistently provides them that experience, there's simply no reason for them to.

These large segments of the population will demand moderation from platforms they use to protect them from targeted harassment. It's these sorts of platforms that have the potential to truly become massive.

Platforms that are strongly moderated from day one (e.g. don't allow targeted harassment of minorities) don't need a "herculean effort to shift things enough to the left to be publicly palatable." A good example is the Reddit alternative raddle.me or even hacker news.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#107

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:10 PM UTC

holidaygoose wrote: post #64

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

[deleted]

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#108

Post by nebulosa » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:11 PM UTC

holidaygoose wrote: post #64

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

Can we try to figure out sociologically, why by default unmoderated social forums become far-right oriented? Is it because: - People on the far-right are magnitudes more vocal and active online than those on the left? That they spend a magnitude more time posting and voting on the internet? - Or when people are anonymous, they reveal their "true selves" more which exhibits more far-right (selfish, tribal, conservativ…

I'd assume another reason is that given that a small number of far-right threads/communities exist, you're going to have people leaving simply because people who are against, or at least frustrated with, your existence isn't a great place to be around.

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#109

Post by edw » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #91

foolfoolz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s extremists on every platform

There is poo on every surface. The key question is the amount of poo relative to the other stuff.

Here’s another question: Would any of our lives be any worse — or would they be better? — if we simply chose to walk away and not be a part of any of these platforms, HN included? How much of our lives is made up of karma whoring, level grinding, and falling into the " rel="nofollow">https://xkcd.com/386/> trap?

Re: Lemmy, an open-source federated Reddit alternative, gets funding for development

#110

Post by CM30 » Sat, Jun 27, 2020, 9:12 PM UTC

as1mov wrote: post #76

MattGaiser wrote: post #18

How is this going to avoid becoming like Voat? Reddit already has competitors. It is just that they are cesspools as the only people who have a strong reason to leave reddit are those reddit has banned.

It's a weird issue honestly. I've been on reddit for almost a decade, and I don't like what it has become. I would love to switch to a better alternative, but the problem is any alternative that pops up seems to be filled with extremists as soon as it starts. This doesn't imply that anyone who wants to leave reddit is a neo-nazi, a lot of us are stuck with reddit because everything else is filled with shit.

The best way to stop an alternative becoming filled with extremists is to start it off as a community for a specific audience, then expand to a more general one later on.

Twitch and Discord did well there for instance. Started out as gaming focused, then became more mainstream.

By doing this, you bring in non extremists early on, and tilt the audience pecentages in such a way that most regulars aren't such extremists.

The problem is most 'alternative' platforms market themselves as 'Reddit/Facebook/Twitter/YouTube except with free speech and no rules' rather than 'an art/gaming/music/sports themed alternative to Reddit/Facebook/Twitter/YouTube with free speech'.

Former means you draw in the outcasts and extremists, latter means you draw in another audience that can then be made more mainstream by opening up support for more and more fields of interest.