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Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

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Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#52

I personally know several vegans that have had minor health problems because of their diet. You can eat a very healthy diet as a vegan, the problem is most people are not educated or motivated enough to get proper variation in their diet. Its much easier for the general public to eat a varied diet by not restricting themselves to veganism.

"Its much easier for the general public to eat a varied diet by not restricting themselves to veganism." Which nutrients (micro or macro) would you say most people would be missing if switching from a omnivore diet to veganism?

From memory, protein, B12 vitamin and iron. Again all these can be avoided with a good understanding of what you are eating while on a vegan diet (buying fortified foods to get B12 for example, or mixing protein sources).

The other thing which I believe (but no idea if scientifically true) is that different people (due to genetics or whatnot) respond to diets a bit differently. A high carb diet for me is a no-no. I get joint pains, tired all the time, break up in acne all over my scalp (and no, I don't eat grains. I eat rice or pasta maybe once a month, most/all is from veggies and fruit). If I go over 100-150g of carbs I have these effects.

My ex-wife had issues with a high protein diet that exarcebated her anxiety and panic attacks.

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By eating food that is more unhealthy for you in order to save the planet, it means that you have valued the planet's health above your own. I find this to be irrational. I am all for finding the cleanest, most environmentally friendly way of feeding humans. But if the result is less good for human consumption, then I am simply substituting one evil for another, and nobody can take any moral high ground over it.

> By eating food that is more unhealthy for you in order to save the planet, it means that you have valued the planet's health above your own. It's entirely possible that these products, in conjunction with a vegan diet, are better overall than a meat-eating diet with similar junk foods. The starting point is this: a generally healthier vegan diet vs. a generally less-healthy omnivorous diet. > But if the result is l…

> I really don't think there's a generally applicable moral framework that doesn't require veganism.

While I don't agree with the parent commenter and I think you made very good points against what they were saying, I also don't think meat consumption in principle is immoral. I absolutely think that industrial farming practices are immoral, especially the horrors of animals raised their whole lives in minuscule coops or pens.

However, free-range animals which are given a decent life before being slaughtered likely lead a better life and definitely have easier deaths than virtually any animal in its natural environment - no predators, almost no disease, and a death that doesn't involve being violently killed or maimed by a predator, or slowly losing the power to find food and dieing of starvation in old age, or any of the numerous horrors that are a certainty for all animals living in nature.

You can argue that we simply can't sustain the modern meat-eating diet for 7B people with traditional farming practices, and this may be true. But the solution is not to stop consumption entirely, but to force ethical production of meat while consumers adapt to a diet with less, but still some, meat (and eggs, milk, cheese, etc.).

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#54
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at the list and see nothing out of the ordinary. Which one of those are unhealthy?

I'd like to reverse the question; which one of those are healthy, especially compared to the real version?

Well, all the vitamins and minerals, which are also in real meat, for starters.

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#55
One of the worst articles I've ever read.

1. Blood levels of DHA vary by a 30 micromole difference between fish eaters and other diet groups suggesting ALA conversion is higher when DHA and EPA intake is lower.(if you are that concerned you can also take a supplement)

2. Jack fruit is low in protein. Ok eat something else than if you are looking for protein lmao. Every food contains every essential amino acid just in varying levels. They are completely wrong on that pointNo evidence you can't get enough of each on a vegan diet just eat a varied diet and you will be fine. No one gets there protein from a 1 or 2 sources anyways.

3. They are spreading dangerous misinformation in their third point. Heme iron is absorbed "better" than non heme iron because it bypasses the body's regulatory pathways. The body cannot regulate heme iron when consumed which can lead to elevated iron levels above what the body needs. This is a problem because iron is a pro-oxident and these supraphsiolgical levels of iron cause oxidative stress leading to DNA damage. This is the main reason red meat is classified as carcinogenic. It is also linked to all sorts of health problems like arthritis, diabetes, and heart disease. Heme iron is not good for you and to reccomend meat because of the heme iron content is ill advised at best. As for deficiency on a vegan diet just make sure you are eating your dark leafy greens foods like tofu, beans, and lentils also have sizeable iron contents. No evidence that plant sources are inadequate.

4. Don't eat out if you are concerned about sodium intake. Pretty much any food from a restaurant, be that fast food or upscale, contains shockingly high sodium contents. Not unique to vegan food in the slightest and to paint it otherwise is blatantly disingenuous.

5. Cheese is good. No it contains saturated fat and cholesterol even that spooky sodium depending on the type. But it contains healthy bacteria because it is fermented. First, that doesn't nullify the other issues concerning cheese. Second, you can get fermented vegan cheese. Thirdly, the bacteria in cheese has an extremely high die of rate so the amount is actually quit low in cheese to begin with and then if you cook it or prepare it in anyway you will pretty much get no living bacteria into your gut.

6. Coconut oil is bad. Yes it is and it is worse than other plant based oils but all oils wheather it be cold pressed olive oil or lard are terrible for you. Some are worse than others but they all contain saturated fat, which is proven to raise serum cholesterol levels.

7. Vegan diets don't contain b12. While lots of processed vegan foods and nut milks have b12 added it still is not that reliable a source. So yes you should supplement with b12 if you are a vegan. 1 pill a day is not difficult.

Processed vegan food is not very good for you yes. But neither is the animal foods it is imitating. No one is eating a beyond burger because it is healthy. They are eating it because it tastes good. Same as the cow burger. If you are trying g to be as healthy as possible a whole food vegan diet which excludes vegan junkfood seems to be the way to go. All if this also ignores the ethical and environmental reasons for going vegan. Dogshit pseudo science article with blatant misinformation.

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#56
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to reverse the question; which one of those are healthy, especially compared to the real version?

Well, all the vitamins and minerals, which are also in real meat, for starters.

And GMO soy leghemoglobin, plus soy leghemoglobin soy protein.

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to reverse the question; which one of those are healthy, especially compared to the real version?

They don’t belch hundreds of pounds of methane into the air, which helps.

Well, that's definitely correct. But they do require soy, GMO soy to be precise, and monocropping is harmful, while on the other hand, cows are grazing animals, which can have a dramatic effect on the fertility of the land.

That aside, I don't believe there's a study about the environmental effect of the manufacturing of this sludge vs eating real foods.

And as an aside, the emission from cows is not as simple as it sounds: https://www.farmcarbontoolkit.org.uk/news/methane-myth-why-c...

Re: Why vegan junk food may be even worse for your health

#58

I recently read that saturated fat in coconut oil is actually much better for you than unsaturated fats in regular vegetable oils due to the effect on sugar metabolism[0]. This seems like a total reversal of what is presented in the article. [0] http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsuitablefats.shtml

More on coconut oil specifically: http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/coconut-oil.shtml
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