Earlier quoted context omitted.
Spotify needs to enable dislike on any song playing, not just in discovery playlists.
Tidal has this! Plus a lot better audio quality, at 1440kbps. It is $10 more though. It allows you to block either 1. the artist or 2. the song track.
Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
261–270 of 288 posts
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are a lot of things I like about tidal but I had constant network issues even with lossy playback. Tracks were skipping and pausing and taking forever to start on the same network that works flawlessly with other services.
Were you in a city with decent 5g coverage? More recently, I’ve been impressed with the smooth streaming of master quality audio.
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#263Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#264Earlier quoted context omitted.
It would be nice if you cared about things beyond $$$ and worked on code for the sake of code. Try listening to only amateur musicians for a month while you work. You might come back with an appreciation for just how much effort and money is required to produce the art you personally care about.
> ... just how much effort and money is required to produce the art you personally care about. I wholeheartedly agree with the “effort” part and I also think, the comparison of music to code is very apt. However, wouldn’t it be fair to say that the money investment for creating the music (i.e. a mastered WAV or whatever format) can be incredibly low these days? And even distribution is incredibly low cost. So barrier…
Labels are dead. Studios are dead. The onus to procure the gear and space to make music is entirely on the artist now. Yes, costs for some gear have come down, but to do truly professional work you need to invest at least a couple thousand in a computer and software (DAW, plugins, etc), another thousand minimum in speaker monitors, another thousand minimum in acoustic treatment, plus let’s call it another thousand or two for various misc stuff (display, keyboard, mouse, a few instruments, a decent mic and audio interface, midi controller(s), cables, etc etc etc). I’d say dead bare minimum you need $6k, and that’s ignoring the fact that so much music software are going to subscription models. You can easily add another zero to that.
Plus you need the space where you can actually make a decent amount of noise, the time (and money) to learn to produce, mix, and master your own music — all lifelong and singular skills in their own rights with their own masters, totally apart from actually writing and performing anything.
Add on distribution fees (which aren’t quite as low as you think in order to get to any sort of “professional” echelon), business and legal fees, etc etc etc, and things get expensive fast.
The important distinction here between coding and music is that the cost has entirely moved from a label/management firm to the artist themselves. No one really makes music in a studio with a console anymore. Yes, it happens (I’m a film composer writing orchestral music, so I’m still doing it — yes, we typically pay for the orchestral recording sessions, whereas in the past film studios took on that cost, and that alone can cost well over $100k), but all in all music is made on a computer. Just because that’s the same tool you use to code, don’t think it’s at all the same to you buying your laptop compared to the days when IBM built its own mainframe (and of course businesses still routinely give out laptops to their employees). Coding can be done even on a shit $300 Acer with free VS Code, but you’ll have a hard time making any professional music on that same computer with free software.
There’s a lot more wrong with your assumptions (such as amateur and pro musicians making the same income) but I’ve typed enough for the moment.
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#265Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, but an indie artist is nearly always the songwriter and publisher (no one else owns the publishing rights, hence “independent”). So it’s a fair comparison, and unfortunately, all else being equal, streaming woefully underperforms to radio to the point of tears.
So a radio play gets $0.12 and goes out to 10,000 listeners. Amazon Music Unlimited pays $0.012 per stream, or $120 for 10,000 listeners. Spotify pays $0.00318 per stream, or $31.80 per 10,000 listeners. Maybe radio does haven't that many listeners? But by my math, if your radio play goes out more than 265 people, you are getting less per listen than on Spotify. The real loss is the $15 10 track CD, which someone wou…
Embedded in what you’re saying is the expectation that radio plays/streams/etc are primarily for “exposure.” It’s a tired argument and not one any professional musician cares about past a certain point, especially considering that, yes, radio plays ideally drive album sales. But in the world of Spotify, streaming replaces both. What matters is that a [radio station | streaming company] is licensing my music so that they can have something to attract people to in order to expose them to ads. Without the music, the model doesn’t work. Sure, some people pay to not have ads — I don’t care. That should only raise, or at best have a neutral effect on, my per-stream rate.
You’re right that the real loss is the CD purchase. Radio plays used to not only pay me and THEN lead to that further CD income, but now Spotify has replaced both and pays far worse than either.
“But Spotify pays $31.80 for 10,000 streams while radio only pays $0.12 for the same exposure!” I hear you saying. Wrong. Spotify pays $0.00318 per stream while radio pays $0.12 per “stream” (broadcast), and that’s the only number that matters (due to the aforementioned way in which radio works). So, not even counting the much larger cost of CD sales, Spotify has reduced my income by nearly 38x. This is all fuzzy math, but that checks out with my anecdotal experience and talking with older folks who were selling gold or platinum records pre-Napster.
Streaming is NOT okay where it is right now. As a music listener I can’t argue that it’s not a better product, but as a music creator having my income slashed by at least 38x isn’t worth it.
To give you an idea of a still-decent avenue for income making music and how far it’s fallen, I’m primarily a composer for film/TV, and broadcast royalties for a single broadcast of a single minute of underscore can pay between $0.99 to a few dollars for broadcast, cable, terrestrial TV. On the other hand, an entire yearly quarter’s worth of earnings for that same minute of music on a streaming service (untold thousands of streams) rarely pay a single dollar — usually more in the single-digit cent range. Do the math — it’s worse than 38x. On a recent royalty statement I calculated that streaming services paid 70x worse than cable. And to top it off, some streaming services are outright refusing to pay legally mandated writers’ royalties (the portion I’m supposed to retain and get paid for, no matter what, by law). It’s moved to cable, too — Discovery tried to pull a stunt last year where they just decided “no more royalties.” They walked it back, thankfully, but we all took it as a warning shot.
Imagine your coding salary getting slashed from $100k to $2k, and imagine never having benefits in the first place, and having had all the costs associated with doing the job shifted from the company to you over the last twenty years, and you’ll get an idea of what it’s like to be a working musician or composer nowadays.
breath
To further clarify my point about streaming:
Radio and albums were how people consumed music in the old days — the deal was that if you want something on-demand, you gotta shell out and buy the thing. Otherwise, endure ad breaks while waiting for the song you want to come on, listen to it once until who knows when, and hopefully you like all the other music along the way. Right?
Now, we can listen to any music we want at any time, on demand. Album ownership is pretty much moot. And that’s great! Again, as a music listener, I love it. But this means that we’re getting the benefits of album ownership in the format of radio. What do people demand more — the benefits, or the format? Obviously there’s a bit of intertwining between the two, but I’m sure most people would say “I care more about being able to listen to what I want when I want” than “I care about being able to stream music” (even though obviously the latter enables the former). This is why piracy was so great for music listeners — it enabled the former. Now, for a small fee, we get the convenience of radio and the benefits of not only album sales, but also piracy, which we now have to compete with. They’re basically the same thing, though: you “own” the album and can thus listen to it whenever you want.
At the end of the day, though, we’re paying for the more important of the two (album ownership) with the payment model of the lesser-valued (radio). Radio licenses worked for stations because they were (and continue to be) distributed amongst a large number of artists and labels, and could be negotiated down via the leverage that radio was ultimately driving album sales.
Now, those ad payments are distributed amongst literally hundreds of thousands of more artists, and instead of a radio station going cheaper with the argument “but this will lead to more album sales via exposure,” Spotify can just use its leverage of “well, fuck you, what else are you gonna do?” It’s a mob mentality. They’re essentially the only game in town and they know it. Furthermore, not all streams are equal — just as radio stations would license in order to play a popular song more often (getting more ears glued to the ads in between), Spotify doesn’t pay Beyoncé and Joe Amateur the same per-stream rate. The lions get the lion’s share and the rest get the scraps divided up between them — but “the rest” is the overwhelming majority of the artists present on Spotify. The curve is exponential.
Consumers are getting a categorically better product in every conceivable way and yet the payment to the actual creators of the product, the reason they’re actually there — to listen to the music - has gone down by such a degree that it’s laughable. It’s an unbelievable amount. It’s disastrous on a scale that is difficult to comprehend unless you live it.
Music is rapidly becoming a field that only the already-extremely-rich can do professionally.
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#266Earlier quoted context omitted.
As opposed to public listening? This whole feature is named after a Freudian slip.
Yes, normally what you listen to get put up on a feed to your "friends" in the app.
Just seemed like they were describing their analytics/logging/recommendation systems as "not private".
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#267On the contrary, most of the greatest contemporary hits was singles. I can't remember really bold and moving statements in the form of albums, except maybe "The Wall". Classic composers never wrote albums,their large forms were symfonies and opera - whole pieces of separate parts.
Albums was invented by vinyl/CD music industry and will die with them.
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#268> Albums are big statements. Some of the most iconic releases in popular music have been albums. On the contrary, most of the greatest contemporary hits was singles. I can't remember really bold and moving statements in the form of albums, except maybe "The Wall". Classic composers never wrote albums,their large forms were symfonies and opera - whole pieces of separate parts. Albums was invented by vinyl/CD music ind…
Albums, in the idealized form (there are, of course, lots that are collections of basically disconnected singles, too) are “whole pieces of separate parts”, like symphonies or operas (or, I suppose, soundtracks.) People who lament losing albums aren't talking about package-of-convenience collections of singles, they are talking about pieces where, while the individual songs may stand alone the same way each planetary theme in Holst’s The Planets can, but they also form a single thematic work with an arc and movement across the whole body.
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
So a radio play gets $0.12 and goes out to 10,000 listeners. Amazon Music Unlimited pays $0.012 per stream, or $120 for 10,000 listeners. Spotify pays $0.00318 per stream, or $31.80 per 10,000 listeners. Maybe radio does haven't that many listeners? But by my math, if your radio play goes out more than 265 people, you are getting less per listen than on Spotify. The real loss is the $15 10 track CD, which someone wou…
> which someone would have to listen to 471 times to reach Spotify pricing. You might have misphrased, but in the event you didn't: How does listening to a CD generate revenue?
Re: Carving out a niche as a small artist on Spotify
#270Earlier quoted context omitted.
So a radio play gets $0.12 and goes out to 10,000 listeners. Amazon Music Unlimited pays $0.012 per stream, or $120 for 10,000 listeners. Spotify pays $0.00318 per stream, or $31.80 per 10,000 listeners. Maybe radio does haven't that many listeners? But by my math, if your radio play goes out more than 265 people, you are getting less per listen than on Spotify. The real loss is the $15 10 track CD, which someone wou…
Terrestrial radio isn’t paying based on the number of listeners. The radio station is paying for a license to broadcast the music (so that people listen to the ads in between, just like TV), a portion of which goes to the songwriter(s), and the publisher(s), and so on. Audience size has nothing to do with it. Embedded in what you’re saying is the expectation that radio plays/streams/etc are primarily for “exposure.”…
It's a shame, because realistically the last 20 years should have been a golden age for small music production. You can now produce professional quality music with nothing more than a PC. I remember going with my dad's band to a recording studio and them recording onto an 8 track tape.
You can take your recordings and publish them on the same platforms that the professionals do, all from the comfort of your own bedroom.
Funny enough, I remember by dad's friend produced an album and, in the early days of CD recordings, convinced the manager of HMV to let him sell it directly from the counter in the store. My dad burned every one of them on our 2x CD burner. Man that cut into my flightsim time.
If I wanted to listen to some of the music you where involved in what would I search for?