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There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

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Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#121

Post by Shivetya »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #33
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Apple seems to be one of the worst offenders in terms of repairability of their devices. You can watch e.g. Louis Rossmann's videos on Youtube, he goes into great detail on how Apple tries to make it impossible for anyone except themselves to service their laptops, even going as far as to restrict market suppliers from selling specific microchips (that were not invented by Apple) to anyone but Apple. I imagine this w…

Right to repair never covered upgrading an item. We cannot upgrade memory or storage in many devices so limiting the rule to say "this item type must allow for use upgrading" limits the flexibility of the seller. If you don't like their limits then buy the other brand.

One could make a good argument that circuit board repair is outside the realm of right to repair as in many applications you simply buy a new module or board; see automotive repairs, appliance repair, and similar.

It is the difference between swapping out the a water pump and repair one yourself. Right to Repair makes it possible to get new water pumps from any vendor as that is the extent by which the common consumer would need. So in the case of Apple products Right to Repair would include replacement circuit boards which could include a mainboard, battery modules, and any individual component which simply plugs in. Also covered would be the ability to open an close an item without having to damage it to do so to get at the internals.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#122

Post by rasz »

Mirioron wrote: post #89
rsynnott wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I kind liked washing machines that properly heated to 90C Your washing machine is likely defective. Nothing about the rules makes this particularly difficult and modern machines with good energy ratings can do it (though, mind you, you'll notice if you read the small print that the energy rating is pretty much just for the mode they expect people to use; the 90 degree mode will use quite a lot of power). > vacuum c…

The cheap machines before might've been less efficient, but they generally at least did the job adequately. That's not always the case when the power rating is limited. Consider that these rules apply to countries with very different economies. People in Bulgaria have an average income of $9,000 a year compared to $54,000 in Germany. They have access to the same vacuum cleaners and washing machines, but they can't af…

The problem is artificial market segmentation, not actual goods build cost.

Difference between primitive universal motor + Triac speed controller versus BLDC + controller one is max around $20 BOM. In return you get vastly better efficiency and quieter operation, but we cant have that in a low end product oh no, how would we upmarket the expensive ones?

Example modern product sold with realistic markup, $30 impact driver https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AERn5japFs8

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#123

Post by 627467 »

488643689 wrote: post #79
squarefoot wrote: post #59

Speaking of phones, they often are purposely rendered obsolete by preventing them to install OS upgrades or migrating them to other more open OSes long before they break for other reasons. While this is a laudable initiative, sadly it won't be much effective against phones planned obsolescence. Opening hardware specs would be a true giant step against this. Not holding my breath though.

True. I deeply regret not spending idk 70€ more getting an iPhone SE instead of the Moto G5 Plus. Last security update was January 2019, as I got about 2 of 3 years of "support". Somehow I was assuming there was going to be an official lineageOS build. Guess what... I am now in the situation where I can't bring myself to buy Android again, but don't really have the 500 bucks for the new SE. Honestly, new techy featur…

I've found that the best solution is: get (used) previous gen high-end (and popular) that has unlocked bootloader. Being popular means I'll find plenty of parts for repair and likely have options for firmware installs.

I got myself a S8 when S10 was about to come out. Fraction of the price and I can keep updating it beyond Samsung efforts.

I still own a Nexus5 5 which seems to be the target of most non-android OS development effort despite its age.

(Another aspect I try to consider is repairability, which phones such as S8 hardly make it easy which it's fragile curve OLED display)

We're past peak smartphones now, I see no need to run after the latest cpu increase or extra camera so that it takes bokeh better. But that's me.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#124

Post by [deleted] »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

[deleted]

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#125

Post by conradfr »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

Maybe we should start with at least a way to change the batteries of otherwise perfectly fine devices or at least a reliable way to have the information about that possibility before purchasing.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#126

Post by gen3 »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

Almost all those transistors are in a nice little package. Using transistor count isn’t really a good way to define a devices serviceable complexity. People repair phones all the time, it just requires the knowledge to do so.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#127

Post by viraptor »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

That's not a great comparison. Nobody repairs separate in-chip transistors and they're not the usual source of issues. PCB mounted components however do fail and get replaced regularly. There is space for reasonable pricing too given that Apple's response is normally either: swap the inside, swap the outside, or swap the display. (all of them expensive)

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#128

Post by hrhrhrd »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

The components in modern electronics are interchangeable and have interfaces about as complex as a gear at worst but usually solderable components. The number of transistors is completely irrelevant because no one is servicing the individual transistors. If a CPU breaks, you replace it.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#129

Post by Scoundreller »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #33
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Apple seems to be one of the worst offenders in terms of repairability of their devices. You can watch e.g. Louis Rossmann's videos on Youtube, he goes into great detail on how Apple tries to make it impossible for anyone except themselves to service their laptops, even going as far as to restrict market suppliers from selling specific microchips (that were not invented by Apple) to anyone but Apple. I imagine this w…

On the other side, Apple’s approach means I’ve been able to re-capture about 50%+ of my 3-4 year old MacBook Airs by parting them out, instead of nearly 0 for commodity laptops.

It really reduced my TCO instead of letting that get captured by 3rd party manufactures.

Re: There is now a European standard for measuring how easy it is to repair stuff

#130

Post by xxs »

cheesecracker wrote: post #115
_ph_ wrote: post #24

Whenever repairability of modern electronic devices is discussed, I have to look at my mechanical wristwatch. Yes, there is an enormeous amount of technology integrated into a smartphone or compact laptop, but my wristwatch contains over 100 moving parts in a tiny volume. And still, every trained watchmaker can open and service it. It requires specialized tools, but those have been avialable to watchmakers for hundre…

Sorry, but isn't a wristwatch like a bazillionth of complexity of a modern smartphone? How many transistors do you need for a wristwatch? The whole idea of servicing modern electronics is romantic nonsense. The hourly rate of an expert will make it too expensive quickly, because industrialized mass production is too effective. (Edit: according to this link on Quora, several billion transistors are not unrealistic in…

I am not sure what kind of point you are attempting to make: the amount of transistors in an IC hardly matters. No one repairs individual transistors. The chips/IC can be replaced and many ICs are not much more expensive than the cogs in the watch.

Ofc, there are billions of transistors in a phone - that doesn't mean anything at all.

Repeatability depends on being able to open a device/tool non-destructively, being able to assemble it back - glue/epoxy used as cheap fastening/engineering tools is the bane of. Ability to find spare parts and service manuals, schematics and the like. The count of transistors is irrelevant as even a simple and single MOSFET driver is enough to prevent a device being operational.

The comment comes off extremely misguided and ill-informed.

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