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Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

cnn.com

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Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#251

Post by m3h »

linuxftw wrote: post #220
m3h wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Pakistan, there is a culture of becoming overconfident and ignorant of the rules in the airline industry as the pilots age. This was also noted by the Aviation minister when he presented the PIA crash report to the assembly. It should be noted that two of the previous large crashes involving an Airblue and a Bhoja airplane were both concluded to be pilot error with the report pointing to overconfidence and negativ…

This is indicative of a systemic culture of rule breaking. This is common in all government run systems. "The system is too arduous, doesn't reflect the 'real world.' We know better than the system, we know what really matters." Eventually you have a bunch of John Waynes playing fast and loose with the rules, eventually they become emboldened, and since the government is famously bad at policing itself, these attitud…

>This is common in all government run systems.

I do not believe all government systems result in systemic rule breaking but only those do that do not provide an reasonable way to get things done within the rules/regulatory framework.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#252

Post by SamuelAdams »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #214
teruakohatu wrote: post #18

"PIA has grounded all its pilots who hold fake licenses, effective immediately." I would have thought anyone with a fake license was already grounded. It sounds like they knew this was an issue and just looked the other way.

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.

Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#254

Post by tux1968 »

phire wrote: post #247
tux1968 wrote: post #45

The fact that the landing gear lever was pushed down into the extended position, and then the plane decided not to deploy the landing gear because of the overspeed issue is a horrible UI. The lever should refuse to budge unless moving it will in fact deploy the landing gear. These pilots are horrible, but that doesn't mean we can't improve the controls still.

There are many reasons why the landing gear might fail to fully extend and lock. There is no way the lever can know about all of these ahead of time. Which is why the checklists require the pilots check the landing gear status lights to check the landing gear is down and locked.

Of course, and that wouldn't change. But why on earth does that preclude the idea of better feedback for the case where the plane wont even try to extend the gear even if you were to lower the lever?

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#255

Post by m000z0rz »

tux1968 wrote: post #68
fredoralive wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if the lockout mechanism breaks and prevents a pilot from selecting gear down when the landing conditions are right? (I guess they could go for the gravity deployment backup mode, but that would be rather extreme option for a broken solonoid (or so on) on a control lever).

Anything can break in a plane which is why you design redundancy into the system. You could provide a manual override switch too.. but at least it would be a conscious act done by the pilot who is aware of the situation. I can't believe anyone is defending the current UI given we have an obvious example right in front of us of how it can fail.

I think people are fixating on one problem here as an example of how broken the UI is. What about the problem where a pilot gets great down, does a go around, and forgets to put the gear up? In this case, how could anyone defend not having the plane out the gear up automatically, with warnings?

Just because we have an "obvious example right in front of us" does not mean it is the only failure mode that needs to be considered in the design of the system.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#256

Post by rob74 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #252
abdullahkhalids wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.

Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?

I think you misunderstand the situation. From the point of view of the fake pilots, everything was just fine: they were doing a great job, the missing or dubious licenses were just a small formality, and the authorities couldn't force them to do anything...

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#257

Post by crazygringo »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #214
teruakohatu wrote: post #18

"PIA has grounded all its pilots who hold fake licenses, effective immediately." I would have thought anyone with a fake license was already grounded. It sounds like they knew this was an issue and just looked the other way.

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.

> No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying.

But why would pilots with valid licenses boycott the government preventing pilots with fake licenses from flying?

Wouldn't the valid-license pilots want this, because with less of them their salaries will go up? I can't imagine any scenario where people who passed a test would want people who didn't pass it to get the same benefits...?!?!

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#258

Post by 737min »

actuator wrote: post #231
737min wrote: post #227

Professional and academic credentials in developing countries are often unreliable or outright fake. If this happend with pilot licenses, imagine CS degrees or medical schoold... Any immigration and H1B reform will need to address this while being fair and free of prejudice.

I am not sure about medical school but isn't this what interview processes of companies like Google or Facebook do?

Yeah, they’re partially that, but the immigration process runs off degrees more than interviews. For medical specialties there are tests by licensing boards and mandatory retraining.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#259

Post by colejohnson66 »

chooseaname wrote: post #248
briandear wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gear up landings are one of the most common insurance claims for aircraft. It’s more common than you might think, even with experienced pilots.

Is there any kind of indicator in the cockpit to remind the pilot? A light? A voice (like the stall voice), that says, "Hey doofus, you're descending and close to landing, so LOWER THE GEAR!"

I’m not a pilot, but I think there’s a “too low” warning

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#260

Post by toomanyrichies »

walrus01 wrote: post #184
yingw787 wrote: post #21

Older article, but apparently Pakistan carts its nuclear weapons around in regular delivery vans: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/pakistan-nukes-delivery-vans/ I personally think this is a bad idea.

It's not a completely illogical approach. An armored convoy stands out like a sore thumb in Rawalpindi. An ordinary slightly beat up, 6-8 year old Suzuki Bolan does not. Maybe send out a few decoy high security vehicles with uniformed crews going in a few different directions, and then send out the Bolan going elsewhere. Bolan: https://www.google.com/search?q=suzuki+bolan&client=ubuntu&h...

In software circles, this is called "security by obscurity" and is frowned upon. And if it's a bad idea with software, I'd argue it's also a bad idea with nuclear weapons.
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