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Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

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11–20 of 26 posts

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#11

It would be interesting if it were possible to create a tool of some sort that distorts your personal data and or floods irrelevant data along with it so it is not so easily collected. For example any time your location is provided it also sends 9 randomized locations, every time you click a google search 9 other random clicks occur on other pages etc, so instead of getting relevant data you are getting a dataset of…

Its quite challenging to anonymize location data. With your example one would simply observe these sets of 10 locations and then look for the most realistic route between them, fully deanonymizing the location.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#12
post #10

> simply ban When you're up against billion-dollar corporations with lobbyists and PACs, there's no "simply" there. GDPR has been twisted and watered down from "don't collect non-essential private data" into "slap an annoying cookie notice that makes the government look stupid, and continue business as usual".

While lobbying is a problem, your comment dramatically exaggerates the issue. GDPR brought a lot of positive change, the best of it being the right to delete your data, and ask what data someone has on you.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#13

Get active in lawmaking. That's the only way. You have to fight corporate political power with people political power. The details of the bill usually come later. Start with organizing and walkouts, done collectively would be a great first step.

Certainly agree on the process of gaining support but thought we should test the idea a bit first. Also interested in framing the conversation a bit differently. Do you see any obvious issues with banning targeted advertising?

Devil's advocate:

2 advantages to targeted advertising.

Targeted advertising if done correctly can connect people who want to buy stuff with people who produce stuff with a minimum of waste. People are able to waste less time and energy discovering what to buy and companies are able to waste less time and energy producing things that people don't want.

Targeted advertising can also enable companies to effectively communicate their value propositions more effectively to local communities, and will allow companies to resist the temptation to support efforts through laws/lobbying/etc. to 'flatten' culture; companies can now embrace rather than steamroll differences in communities.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#15
post #14

Surveillance capitalism seems like a result of power asymmetry between corporation and user - David vs Goliath. It may require a political solution, rather than a technical one (though of course they can work in tandem)

Agree. The suggestion was for a law that bans highly targeted advertising.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly agree on the process of gaining support but thought we should test the idea a bit first. Also interested in framing the conversation a bit differently. Do you see any obvious issues with banning targeted advertising?

Devil's advocate: 2 advantages to targeted advertising. Targeted advertising if done correctly can connect people who want to buy stuff with people who produce stuff with a minimum of waste. People are able to waste less time and energy discovering what to buy and companies are able to waste less time and energy producing things that people don't want. Targeted advertising can also enable companies to effectively com…

>Targeted advertising if done correctly can connect people who want to buy stuff with people who produce stuff with a minimum of waste.

What exactly is the waste? I'm assuming you're saying the advertiser doesn't "waste" money by advertising to folks he doesn't think will be receptive to his message. That may be true bit it's not necessarily a societal benefit. It's also most enriching the targeting companies, not saving the producers in this case. Google et al still collect the money that would have been spent on untargeted ads.

> People are able to waste less time and energy discovering what to buy and companies are able to waste less time and energy producing things that people don't want.

This seems a very generous and ad friendly interpretation that ignores other costs. Are there people who need Juul? Are there people who need fattening foods and soda? Is it possible that advertisers will prey on people's insecurities to sell them magic beauty creams?

>Targeted advertising can also enable companies to effectively communicate their value propositions more effectively to local communities, and will allow companies to resist the temptation to support efforts through laws/lobbying/etc. to 'flatten' culture; companies can now embrace rather than steamroll differences in communities.

Not sure what is being said here? If you don't by my product I'll lobby for laws you don't like in your jurisdiction?

At the same time we seem to be ignoring all the costs to targeted advertising including the main point of this suggestion, the adversarial collection of personal data but there are others side effects as well.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#17
I think what's overlooked is the desire to give away personal data. Facebook exists because millions of people don't care (enough) about privacy, for example.

And if we created a body of laws to put personal data entirely in the hands of its owner? There'd still be millions who'd willingly hand it over to participate in 'surveillance capitalism'.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#19
Sorry. I doubt with their army of lobbyists and influence this will work. They will simply get the rules interpreted in their favor. Historically there is only one example I know of where corporations changed their bad behavior. First the tobacco companies only admitted that smoking caused cancer and changed their marketing after the 46 states attorneys generals sued and won $200 billion plus payments into perpetuity to recoup the medical costs of treating tobacco patients. Only the threat of a lawsuit that will bankrupt them will get them to change their ways.

Re: Ask HN: A simple solution to limit surveillance capitalism?

#20

Nobody is stopping you from never telling anyone your personal information.

I mean sure, but when doing so puts you at a significant disadvantage by not being able to use a vast swath or products and services that argument doesn’t really work.
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