Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says • Hacker News Board

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#181

Post by catalogia » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

jaywalk wrote: post #131

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I didn't use an absolute in my initial comment is because I can definitively see situations where someone qualified but not licensed would wind up in the co-pilots seat because one of the pilots scheduled to make a flight couldn't and cooking the books was seen as a lesser problem than the flight not happening. You have to remember that in rural areas "but that's illegal" doesn't really carry much weight.…

Who exactly would be "qualified but not licensed" at a commercial airline? Your scenario is beyond absurd.

A pilot with a revoked license? I don't think that's particularly likely, but "beyond absurd" seems a tad too strong. I didn't expect this discussion to get so heated.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#182

Post by walrus01 » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

From a western perspective, if you travel to Pakistan and observe the safety/quality of electrical wiring and gas heating/pipe systems, they're shockingly poor. Harsh economic realities mean that not everyone can wire an office or house to the same safety and quality standards that we would see in North America.

In my personal opinion the only reason why there are not a constant amount of electrical fires killing people is that brick and concrete structures don't catch on fire very well. The same shoddy electrical wiring in a north american environment with wood-frame construction would be a catastrophe.

The same cost cutting and compromise approach should not be taken to civil aviation.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#183

Post by catalogia » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #166

polartx wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but i hope they get more funding for safety Here’s a wild idea: don’t try and fill the hole with money; if you can’t afford to safely move your nukes, you can’t afford your nukes, ergo you shouldn’t have nukes.

>Here’s a wild idea: don’t try and fill the hole with money; if you can’t afford to safely move your nukes, you can’t afford your nukes, ergo you shouldn’t have nukes. Pakistan is playing in a geopolitical game that also involves the US, China, India and other nations much stronger than it. Large countries have a track record of being willing to throw small regional powers under the bus for their own gain. Pakistan,…

Owning nuclear weapons may deter foreign threats, but it may also empower domestic threats if those nukes aren't controlled properly. If a general announces one day that he's the king because men loyal to him have control of the nukes [or even just one], what could the government of Pakistan do but surrender?

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#184

Post by walrus01 » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

yingw787 wrote: post #21

Older article, but apparently Pakistan carts its nuclear weapons around in regular delivery vans: https://www.wired.com/2011/11/pakistan-nukes-delivery-vans/ I personally think this is a bad idea.

It's not a completely illogical approach. An armored convoy stands out like a sore thumb in Rawalpindi. An ordinary slightly beat up, 6-8 year old Suzuki Bolan does not. Maybe send out a few decoy high security vehicles with uniformed crews going in a few different directions, and then send out the Bolan going elsewhere.

Bolan: https://www.google.com/search?q=suzuki+bolan&client=ubuntu&h...

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#185

Post by nradov » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:03 PM UTC

ta17711771 wrote: post #141

mav3rick wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the stereotyping of the entire "East" as one incompetent shit hole. The last I checked infrastructure in the US is crumbling. Each new thing also costs an insane bloated amount leading to a refusal to build new infrastructure altogether. Being in the west doesn't guarantee many things and being in the east doesn't either.

It's crumbling because it hasn't been maintained since the 50s-70s, not because it's shittily built. To be fair.

Boston recently spent $21B on the Big Dig project. It was shittily built. It leaks, and the tunnel ceiling collapsed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#Problems

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#186

Post by Enginerrrd » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:06 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #91

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

>Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may not have critical structural problems today, but in 5 to 10 years, you may have to reconsider your infrastructure. By doi…

>It's folly to pretend that those engineers designing shoddy Chinese apartment complexes that occasionally fall down during construction don't have the same formulas and simulation tools at their disposal. They just have different inputs and design constraints. They know that if they build 100 buildings and ten fall down it's still cheaper than 100 better buildings where none fall down. There's no point in building a 100yr building if it's gonna be bulldozed in ten.

Not quite, it's more of a deliberate fraud made possible by political corruption in the contract awarding process where they also know they won't be liable for rebuilding because they'll be long gone. The calculus is different than what you described.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#187

Post by catalogia » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:07 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #132

newyankee wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't want to add politics to this, but i hope they get more funding for safety. Sadly, most of the funding they get from US and other Western countries is gobbled up by the Army which is the most powerful institution in the country. Their economic situation is a little worse now and it is likely they will become a vassal state of China in the future as well. China will take the role of USA in the country if it goes…

So you want to give them more money even if you know that money is systematically misused? Pakistan will become a vessel state of China, its totally inevitable. Pakistan is 1000x more valuable to China then it could ever by for the US. The US should stop the idiotic believe that Pakistan is an ally. They simply are not, and have not been for a long time. It is well known that the support the Taliban. It is well known…

> The US should stop the idiotic believe that Pakistan is an ally.

Do they actually believe it, or do they just pay lip service to that idea for realpolitik reasons? The US has repeatedly accused China of assisting Pakistan with their nuclear weapons program. It's hard for any of us to say what the truth is in that matter, but either way I don't think the potential relationship between Pakistan and China has been ignored.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#188

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:08 PM UTC

NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #89

bserge wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In such countries, the low level corruption plays a big part in that. It's hard to pass the tests when everyone wants money directly from you. Pay a driving instructor, fail, try again, pay another guy, fail, repeat until you realize maybe it would be best to just buy it by bribing someone higher up :/

Exactly. You know that you're going to end up making a "facilitation payment" to an official to get something done after you've met all the actual, legal requirements. What is your incentive to meet those requirements when the "bribe" to that same official to get that same thing done is the same amount of money, only you don't need to go through the legal hoops? As a matter of law, for U.S. companies the former is le…

[deleted]

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#189

Post by starpilot » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

What I've found is that outside of these fields (civil/mechanical/chemical engineering), people greatly underestimate how much math goes into projects like these. I'm a programmer now, but I used to be a mechanical engineer in aerospace. We used far, far more math in a hands-on way in the latter. We'd calculate bolt stacks: https://www.dimensionalconsulting.com/bolt-stacks.html on every bolt in a helicopter. There were a lot of bolts.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#190

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #81

thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part. Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them. Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following…

Morality is out the window once someone's mortgage is in the mix.