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Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

cnn.com

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Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#171

Post by netsharc »

mav3rick wrote: post #77
thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

I like the stereotyping of the entire "East" as one incompetent shit hole. The last I checked infrastructure in the US is crumbling. Each new thing also costs an insane bloated amount leading to a refusal to build new infrastructure altogether. Being in the west doesn't guarantee many things and being in the east doesn't either.

To add to your voice, sure, the "west" may have the reputation of good engineering, and the "east" have one of "shoddy slap-bang it all together", but one needs to keep up the vigilance to maintain a good reputation.

Just to make you think about western engineering and oversight, here's one word: 737MAX.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#172

Post by newyankee »

polartx wrote: post #138
newyankee wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't want to add politics to this, but i hope they get more funding for safety. Sadly, most of the funding they get from US and other Western countries is gobbled up by the Army which is the most powerful institution in the country. Their economic situation is a little worse now and it is likely they will become a vassal state of China in the future as well. China will take the role of USA in the country if it goes…

>but i hope they get more funding for safety Here’s a wild idea: don’t try and fill the hole with money; if you can’t afford to safely move your nukes, you can’t afford your nukes, ergo you shouldn’t have nukes.

The politics is complicated. They do not call it a nuclear bomb only for Pakistan, but they call it one for the entire Islamic Ummah (it would be better for you to Google it). Primary target has always been India though, although the point is that constant state of disarray is what the army wants.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#173

Post by vmh1928 »

awakeasleep wrote: post #81
thev4lley wrote: post #60

I don't think most people appreciate the level of regulation that ensures safety and quality of life in Western countries. Go to many countries outside of that spectrum and you may still see beautiful architecture and more. Now did the team that worked on that project have the necessary experience to drive a safe and long lasting solution? Does the concrete and steel used follow good standards? This means that it may…

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part. Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them. Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following…

The history of the world tells us that ethics is a very weak control. In particular where profit is concerned. Capitalists have proven time and time again that they will pass whatever costs they can to others, the users of their product, the public or the workers. No doubt the many of the managers at 3M(just one example of zillions,) went to some sort religious institution and if you asked them they'd profess to be moral people. Zero dependence should be made on morality as a regulator.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#174

Post by [deleted] »

addicted wrote: post #154
awakeasleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part. Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them. Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following…

In capitalist societies any morality driven endeavor will very quickly be driven to the ground by its amoral competitor. And in public organizations the moral are quickly driven out because they threaten the amoral. Also, of course, there are cases where regulation fails, and it’s never 100% successful. But the situations you mention are where people refused to adjust regulations as needed. I’m curious to see example…

[deleted]

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#175

Post by newyankee »

nickik wrote: post #132
newyankee wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't want to add politics to this, but i hope they get more funding for safety. Sadly, most of the funding they get from US and other Western countries is gobbled up by the Army which is the most powerful institution in the country. Their economic situation is a little worse now and it is likely they will become a vassal state of China in the future as well. China will take the role of USA in the country if it goes…

So you want to give them more money even if you know that money is systematically misused? Pakistan will become a vessel state of China, its totally inevitable. Pakistan is 1000x more valuable to China then it could ever by for the US. The US should stop the idiotic believe that Pakistan is an ally. They simply are not, and have not been for a long time. It is well known that the support the Taliban. It is well known…

The problem is that the general public is very fond of conspiracy theory for every problem under the sun. Every issue will be attributed to malicious intent of India, USA or Israel (somehow that comes into the mix). If the general public does not evolve, how would the army or govt.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#176

Post by thenewwazoo »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #166
polartx wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but i hope they get more funding for safety Here’s a wild idea: don’t try and fill the hole with money; if you can’t afford to safely move your nukes, you can’t afford your nukes, ergo you shouldn’t have nukes.

>Here’s a wild idea: don’t try and fill the hole with money; if you can’t afford to safely move your nukes, you can’t afford your nukes, ergo you shouldn’t have nukes. Pakistan is playing in a geopolitical game that also involves the US, China, India and other nations much stronger than it. Large countries have a track record of being willing to throw small regional powers under the bus for their own gain. Pakistan,…

Ukraine is an excellent example of this. They voluntarily relinquished their nuclear weapons, and now Russian troops have invaded the eastern part of the country.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#177

Post by easytiger »

kakwa_ wrote: post #123
yalogin wrote: post #102

This is quite scary actually, something I didn’t think would happen. I can see people faking engineering degrees or even medicine as they can then try to evade all work and get away by relying on the team. Pilot is not that, they have to fly it and they kill themselves too if things go wrong.

The Pakistani situation is actually not unique. There are precedents, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mexico_City_Learjet_crash A Mexican government Learjet plane carrying the Secretary of the Interior crashed in Mexico city due to a mishandling of the landing approach by the pilots (they flew to close to a 767 and got blown away by wake turbulence). The pilots were in fact not qualified, and in fact…

Also in SA: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-47420515

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#178

Post by vmh1928 »

vmh1928 wrote: post #173
awakeasleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe regulation is an essential tool for society, but it is not the whole story- morality plays as large a part. Once the regulation is set, it can easily be undermined. BPA was banned by regulation, so industry developed analogue chemicals with the same properties and began using them. Certain aspects of concrete & steel are regulated, so unethical effort goes into subverting the idea of the law while following…

The history of the world tells us that ethics is a very weak control. In particular where profit is concerned. Capitalists have proven time and time again that they will pass whatever costs they can to others, the users of their product, the public or the workers. No doubt the many of the managers at 3M(just one example of zillions,) went to some sort religious institution and if you asked them they'd profess to be m…

Let me add, perhaps there's a moral basis behind the regulations ("don't have machinery that chops worker arms off") but morality should have zero role to play as an implicit or explicit part of the regulation. "we don't have to include in the regulation "install shields on equipment to prevent harm to workers" because we expect the factory owners to take the necessary steps, based on their being moral people, to prevent it." Expecting good behavior based on the expectation of morality should never be part of any regulation.

Re: Almost 1 in 3 pilots in Pakistan have fake licenses, aviation minister says

#180

Post by seesawtron »

thrill wrote: post #47
seesawtron wrote: post #39

On a smaller but more widespread scale is the issue of fake licenses for driving automobiles. It is common knowledge how you can get these licenses easily in "some" (similar) countries without ever giving a driving test and/or going through any sort of written exam where you have to go through the rules of the road. Some argue that they are only endangering their own lives on the road but one can see how that is comp…

They would also have strong motivation to never bother to get training or a license.

That's a win-win for public being safe from negligent/undisciplined drivers and for environment with increased use of public transportation.
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