Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#201

Post by fomine3 » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 4:31 AM UTC

panitaxx wrote: post #117

I started buying clothing from the brand itself (eg shoes directly from adidas, etc). Some appliances also direct. I sometimes buy food from Walmart but only if they are the retailer (they don't seem to commingle inventories). I bought some ssd directly from Samsung site. Another problem with amazon is the sheer quantity of not-counterfeit but cheap unknown knockoffs. It seems more like an expensive AliExpress.

Amazon becomes an expensive AliExpress but it also has stock on near warehouse rather than Shenzen. Sometimes useful.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#202

Post by autarch » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 4:40 AM UTC

macNchz wrote: post #179

hitpointdrew wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day Amazon is going to get smacked with such a lawsuit resulting in billions in punitive damages, then and only then will you see real effort on their part to curb this behavior. IIRC at least one person (probably more) has died already from counterfeits on Amazon. I read one where I guy died in a motorcycle crash, it was found that his helmet (which he bought off Amazon) was a fraud and wasn't/didn't meet DOT…

There is all sorts of generic rock climbing gear on Amazon that is genuinely dangerous. Climbing forums have plenty of people recommending never to buy gear on Amazon, but I can’t help thinking of the thousands of people buying these things who have no idea. The negative reviews for some of the cheap climbing harnesses on Amazon are frightening...stitching coming undone, buckles that don’t work, obviously fake safety…

> These are critical life safety devices that are impossible for individuals to evaluate for effectiveness on their own.

Well, that's not quite true. Just take a big fall where you really need your harness not to break and see what happens. You (or the person who scrapes you off the ground) will quickly find out whether your harness is effective.

This testing procedure is prohibitively expensive and best avoided.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#203

Post by ornornor » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 4:46 AM UTC

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34

rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

> One day Amazon is going to get smacked with such a lawsuit resulting in billions in punitive damages, then and only then will you see real effort on their part to curb this behavior.

I can’t wait for that day. What they’re doing is criminal in my opinion.

But unwind hold my breath. The story about electric Skateboards burning someone’s house down resulted in amazon being „only a reseller“ with „no responsibility“ wrt the resulting property damage from them selling a battery powered scooter that didn’t meet safety standards.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#204

Post by ornornor » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 4:49 AM UTC

mkl wrote: post #174

everdrive wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely had a ladder I bought on Amazon collapse when I was using it. It’s dumb luck that I didn’t fall off.

Was the ladder counterfeit, or just crappy?

In any case, how is amazon not responsible for selling a ladder that obviously didn’t meet safety standards??

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#205

Post by p1necone » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 4:59 AM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #168

bllguo wrote: post #163

I have never had counterfeit issues on amazon and always find these threads bewildering. I buy almost everything I can't get from my local grocery store from them. I can't tell whether I'm improbably lucky or if I'm part of a silent majority. Claims of things like counterfeit cereal (come on, really want to see some actual proof here) tilt me towards the latter, though.

I was reselling Monster energy drinks in my office. I tried ordering some from Amazon, since the bigger packs are more readily available, and for lower prices, allowing me to sell cans for a cheaper per-unit price. The very first pack I got was clearly counterfeit. The cans were subtly different both in appearance and etching. A brave volunteer who tried some also reported it tasted off. If they're counterfeiting ene…

I wonder if the "silent majority" is just all the people sufficiently fooled by the counterfeiting?

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#206

Post by Thorrez » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:00 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #173

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

> One day Amazon is going to get smacked with such a lawsuit resulting in billions in punitive damages, then and only then will you see real effort on their part to curb this behavior. Amazon has been sued many times over similar things. The precedent is very strong. They win every case because they are not the seller. Unless the law changes, there is little hope of this happening like you expect.

> They win every case because they are not the seller.

I don't think that's always the case:

> Such pirated titles are being sold directly by Amazon, not through third-party Marketplace sellers.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/amazo...

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#207

Post by russdill » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:21 AM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #41

rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

The issue is so simple to solve and they don't have to have a crimes unit to do it. Simply segment reviews and ratings based on seller. All you have to do is have each seller put a scannable sticker on each product based each batch going through intake. You can even still colocate. Then all the returns and bad reviews go to the right person and they can just get banned. This is not rocket surgery.

Leads to sellers gaming the review system, such as offering compensation/consideration to buyers leaving reviews and/or providing fraudulent reviews.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#208

Post by binarysolo » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:39 AM UTC

rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

Amazon seller here, we sell in grocery and have seen a buncha things in this space:

There's a nontrivial possibility this is a transportation and/or storage issue. Most food items have some sort of temperature threshhold during transit and storage. We've had food products incorrectly commingled during shipment and storage over the years which ruined thousands of saleable products. Amazon's gotten a lot better about this by placing better ship/store standards from a subcategory level but it's a known issue.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#209

Post by binarysolo » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 5:43 AM UTC

gwittel wrote: post #27

Are fake listings a problem? Absolutely. But is it the primary issue? I'm not so sure. It seems like Amazon is doing all sorts of things but not actually addressing the root -- inventory co-mingling + sketchy 3rd party sellers that can come back overnight. Simply ending inventory co-mingling would likely handle a substantial portion of counterfeits since Amazon is sourcing their stock through standard channels. Amazo…

Amazon seller here - cominging is typically a long tail problem these days, as manufacturers with brand registry basically get their own special inventory/storage treatment. I know it doesn't seem like it from a consumer side, but we as 1P vendors have to jump through a buncha hoops to sell our own products using Brand Registry, and even more hoops in 3P items and extra labeling of barcoded items just to note that the items came from and are trackable to us.

*1P = first-party manufacturer, 3P = third-party (not original manufacturer) seller

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#210

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Jun 25, 2020, 6:02 AM UTC

vayr wrote: post #199

ciarannolan wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It seems like Amazon is doing all sorts of things but not actually addressing the root -- inventory co-mingling + sketchy 3rd party sellers that can come back overnight. Right, and for the reasons you listed, they simple do not care. They care only about appearing to care. As someone else linked in this thread, they announce some bullshit "investigative team" like this every 6 months or so.

I don't think they don't care -- this is a huge source of negative press & goes against company culture of putting the Customer above ALL else (including employees & their well being lol) The problem is just that even a tiny percentage of bad-actors still make up millions of sales at Amazon's scale.

If they cared, they would let customers filter to only search items shipped and sold by Amazon.com, and they would come out and publicly announce they do NOT commingle inventory. They specifically removed the ability to filter by "shipped and sold by Amazon.com" (ignoring the fact that with commingling, it doesn't matter anyway).

Since they do not do the above, they obviously do not care. Retail profit margins are tiny, and they make far more on a third party sale while shouldering none of the risk. Therefore, Amazon's best strategy is to appear to care, as long as people continue to shop. And the more third party sellers people use, the better for Amazon, as they simply skim some percentage off of total sales.