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The Harm of Studying Abroad

readingthechinadream.com

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Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#41

Post by asveikau »

powersnail wrote: post #9

The whole article rings false to me. Although I get that it's Zhang's personal experience, but the reasoning makes zero sense, and it feels like he just wanted to vent. Some of the points seemingly have nothing to do with studying abroad, but the nature of the university he attended, for example, > First, you have no time. You read a lot but there’s no time to think. This is has nothing to do with being a foreigner,…

> Personally, I think the biggest difficulty for a Chinese in studying abroad in the US, is the difficulty of being accepted into the circle.

I am white but I have heard this from Asian people and Asian Americans. I wonder if some of it could vary from region to region. For example an Asian American friend had very big problems in Florida. Her white peers said unbelievably ignorant things to a fully American born, ordinary American from the northeast. And my first instinct hearing this was "yeah, well, Florida".

That's not to say it doesn't happen everywhere. I know I have heard complaints of this category here in San Francisco.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#42

Post by AnimalMuppet »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #35
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #31

The domain name for the web page is kind of interesting in this regard. Just from the domain, I'd expect it to carry pro-China puff pieces at best, outright propaganda at worst.

The site is edited by three Canadian history professors. "This web site is devoted to the subject of intellectual life in contemporary China, and more particularly to the writings of establishment intellectuals. What you will find here are essentially translations of Chinese texts that we consider important, together with discussions of related issues and a number of reference tools that can help those interested to…

Interesting. I stand corrected.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#43

Post by travisoneill1 »

I agree with this criticism of US college:

> You read really quickly, discuss really quickly, turn in your papers really quickly. The things you think about are decided by your professors, and you follow their lead as you develop your thoughts instead of asking yourself what questions you developed from your reading or what link it might produce with your own background. So you just do your best to chew the cud and digest the material. And if you actually learn something, it is transplanted out of nothing and remains attached to its origin rather than sinking roots or sprouting branches. When study is nothing but rote learning, who doesn’t lose their appetite?

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#45

Post by rob_austin »

powersnail wrote: post #9

The whole article rings false to me. Although I get that it's Zhang's personal experience, but the reasoning makes zero sense, and it feels like he just wanted to vent. Some of the points seemingly have nothing to do with studying abroad, but the nature of the university he attended, for example, > First, you have no time. You read a lot but there’s no time to think. This is has nothing to do with being a foreigner,…

I wholeheartedly agree with your comment about never being part of them. That experience is real and difficult and one that I experience as well with people from my own culture.

Having tried to make friends with people from many cultures I found my luck to be in the 10-20% range. Majority of people in every culture are only comfortable with people of their own culture. It can be hard to find the few people who are open to developing friendship with people of a different culture.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#46

Post by earthboundkid »

This essay is in a totally different genre than an HN blog post, so all of the comments here are totally wide of the mark. It's like asking why Thoreau didn't just get a telegraph line back to Boston. We don't use this genre in the US, which reinforces the point he's making. The Analects quote at the beginning is also crucial. All educated Chinese know that quote and ~0% of Americans do: we have radically different cultures, not just superficially different pop cultures. The whole argument is a sly wink in favor of nationalism, but it's not supposed to be read on the square as simple propaganda either.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#47

Post by bluntfang »

chillacy wrote: post #7

> Fourth, life is dry and boring, you don’t have friends or family, and you can’t sit around every day talking about the meaning of life. With time, you wind up really lonely, which makes you appreciate the vitality of life in China. When you come back, you’re like a bird let out of a cage, and your only urge is to fly. Who wants to study? Too bad. Okay that has to be partially self inflicted. Too many people travel…

Or option B: american racism doesn't stop at blacks.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#48

Post by schwarzmx »

blackbear_ wrote: post #13
vorpalhex wrote: post #3

From my reading of this, this is just someone who was very isolated due in part to cultural/language barriers. I would be curious if someone who had the same experiences but was less isolated and had social nets would have a very different take. > You sing the praises of whatever it is that your enemy opposes, and you oppose whatever your enemy praises. That screams like someone who feels pushed out and isolated from…

I agree with your reading, it feels like most of his issues were due to very different culture and language. As an European who attended university in four European countries I can attest how enriching and fulfilling those years have been, and how much I have grown. I would strongly recommend studying abroad to anybody who has the chance. Even as an introvert it was easy to make friends.

To me it comes down to the language barrier. Not having a good command of English (or the local language) hinders your ability to integrate with the locals. Learning English for a person from a Western country is way easier than for a Chinese person.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#49

Post by pochamago »

ghostpepper wrote: post #25
powersnail wrote: post #9

The whole article rings false to me. Although I get that it's Zhang's personal experience, but the reasoning makes zero sense, and it feels like he just wanted to vent. Some of the points seemingly have nothing to do with studying abroad, but the nature of the university he attended, for example, > First, you have no time. You read a lot but there’s no time to think. This is has nothing to do with being a foreigner,…

> pretend to be a white person and be extremely amiable Can you expand on this? Are you saying that foreigners at university need to be more amiable to be accepted than they would otherwise?

I believe they're referring to the general perception of white people as extremely gregarious compared to East Asian cultures.

Re: The Harm of Studying Abroad

#50

Post by analyst74 »

asveikau wrote: post #41
powersnail wrote: post #9

The whole article rings false to me. Although I get that it's Zhang's personal experience, but the reasoning makes zero sense, and it feels like he just wanted to vent. Some of the points seemingly have nothing to do with studying abroad, but the nature of the university he attended, for example, > First, you have no time. You read a lot but there’s no time to think. This is has nothing to do with being a foreigner,…

> Personally, I think the biggest difficulty for a Chinese in studying abroad in the US, is the difficulty of being accepted into the circle. I am white but I have heard this from Asian people and Asian Americans. I wonder if some of it could vary from region to region. For example an Asian American friend had very big problems in Florida. Her white peers said unbelievably ignorant things to a fully American born, or…

It's quite well known that SF is full of subtle racism towards Asians despite ironically being full of Asians.

Actually calling those racism is a bit overblown compared to lynchings or police shootings. It's mostly biases and stereotypes affecting how people treat strangers, and Asians suffer silently in those situations like many other groups.

Think of the recent issue where a black woman and her child was denied service at a restaurant due to "dress code", if it didn't happen that a white kid had similar clothing as her kid, she wouldn't have realized it was racial profiling.

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