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Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

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Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#71

Post by throwaway_jobs »

raverbashing wrote: post #46
throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

Edit: theory probably doesn't work, see comments below > So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. I have a simpler explanation for that. Someone bought the tooling (injection moulds?), in an auction maybe, didn't bother to change the brand and is out there manufacturing slides.…

> I have a simpler explanation for that. Someone bought the tooling (injection moulds?), in an auction maybe

But the company never sold them, so even they from the beginning reasonably believed they had in fact manufactured the slide. Had they sold the molds (which I don’t think a company would do bearing their mark without selling the actual mark as well) it would have actually helped their defense and helped them consider/discover they were not the manufacturer of this particular slide.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#72

Post by rckoepke »

ericd wrote: post #63
rckoepke wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, great question. Basically wrong flavor and texture. Visually looked quite similar but just had a cardboard consistency. Repeatedly compared vs. grocery store bought over a few months span of alternating purchases to confirm. It was somehow both immediately obvious and also subtle. My girlfriend eventually confirmed that something didn't seem right with it, so we started buying back-to-back orders alternating fr…

You're sure it was not a storage condition or age issue? I think you might be right in your theory that it was made by the correct company but intended for a different market and was made with a different formulation. Perhaps there's some arbitrage opportunity there. I guess I don't understand why someone would try to counterfeit something like cereal. Seems like it would be hard to get enough scale to make it worth…

Checked expiration dates, they were comparable to store-bought. I store my cereal in pretty abhorrent conditions sometimes (like leaving it in the back of my car during Texas summer for a few days) and never noticed degradation leading to flavor/texure like this, but storage issues are still a possible cause. Maybe I'll do a real experiment sometime involving storing grocery cereal outdoors in the Houston summer and see what happens.

I completely agree with all your sentiments and part of why it took me so long to come to my conclusion.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#73

Post by rckoepke »

tqi wrote: post #61
rckoepke wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, great question. Basically wrong flavor and texture. Visually looked quite similar but just had a cardboard consistency. Repeatedly compared vs. grocery store bought over a few months span of alternating purchases to confirm. It was somehow both immediately obvious and also subtle. My girlfriend eventually confirmed that something didn't seem right with it, so we started buying back-to-back orders alternating fr…

> Or at least diverted from another global region where the recipe/ingredients are somewhat different. Did you happen to check for differences in the packaging?

I did. They weren't identical but the "counterfeit" wasn't flawed enough to say it was definitely made by a different company as opposed to a different printing facility or box vendor.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#74

Post by azinman2 »

rckoepke wrote: post #48
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my god you ordered food in the mail. Did you put it inside your body? Are you okay?

I thought this was hilarious personally but in general, this kind of comment doesn't really add to the discussion and feels not very appropriate for HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Comments should be more thoughtful and substantive, not less. However, I will absolutely take the opportunity to plug a food-by-mail company t…

I know you’re getting downvoted because of product placement not adding to a discussion, but I have to say that having food items that are all represented by a drawing doesn’t inspire confidence in me. I’m looking at bread and all I see is a cartoon — I have no way of evaluating it from that page. A photo of bread can tell me a ton about the quality of the bake, and if this is more generic grocery store or is something properly done by an artisan.

In person this becomes even more obvious. I don’t see this being a good way to shop for food by mail.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#75

Post by crazygringo »

rckoepke wrote: post #50
julianozen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really interested to hear how you figured out the breakfast was fake

Yeah, great question. Basically wrong flavor and texture. Visually looked quite similar but just had a cardboard consistency. Repeatedly compared vs. grocery store bought over a few months span of alternating purchases to confirm. It was somehow both immediately obvious and also subtle. My girlfriend eventually confirmed that something didn't seem right with it, so we started buying back-to-back orders alternating fr…

Did you check the expiration dates by any chance?

I'd be highly suspicious that this was, in fact, food counterfeiting in any way. I've never heard of a food brand being counterfeited on Amazon (with actual evidence). Food "counterfeiting" is generally a "legitimate" manufacturer themselves falsely representing their ingredients (e.g. diluting their olive oil with canola oil).

Amazon used to be known for keeping boxed foods for much longer than a grocery store -- so if cereal takes 2 years to expire, at the grocery store you're always buying cereal that was made last month, while from Amazon it might have been made a year and a half ago.

If it wasn't the expiration date, then it was probably kept in a very hot environment for an extended time, which also breaks down flavor and texture. If kept on pallets under plastic in the blazing sun for days, it could cook them like an oven, flavor goodbye. (Might not have even been Amazon, but a wholesaler or similar.)

Everything you've said is far more consistent with time/heat than the notion that you were getting "counterfeit" cereal.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#76

Post by jacobush »

ghaff wrote: post #10
starpilot wrote: post #5

I just bought some gym shorts from Target for $20. Amazon had some for the same price, but numerous reviews with photos showed people were getting fakes. Fuck that. Target of all places seems more curated than Amazon.

The more you focus and the more you curate, the more you can trust you're getting what you think you're getting and the more confidence you can have in the overall supply chain. The tradeoff is selection and probably price--although for some large specialist retailers like B&H Photo you largely do get both price and a pretty good selection of products. Amazon should at least better separate the products it largely ha…

Is it really "selection" though anymore, when it comes down to a throw of the dice what you actually get home when you order?

A wide random selection is still wide I guess.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#77

Post by LegitShady »

starpilot wrote: post #5

I just bought some gym shorts from Target for $20. Amazon had some for the same price, but numerous reviews with photos showed people were getting fakes. Fuck that. Target of all places seems more curated than Amazon.

Amazon traded their quality for being a market platform and taking a cut of a much larger pie with more selection

Unfortunately they also completely ignored counterfeit issues which has sabotaged their reputation. I think this is just damage control because I'd they're selling coungerfeit goods with some knowledge of the issue they mm at have some Liabity.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#78

Post by [deleted] »

ConcernedCoder wrote: post #57
snarf21 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is so simple to solve and they don't have to have a crimes unit to do it. Simply segment reviews and ratings based on seller. All you have to do is have each seller put a scannable sticker on each product based each batch going through intake. You can even still colocate. Then all the returns and bad reviews go to the right person and they can just get banned. This is not rocket surgery.

counterfeit stickers...

[deleted]

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#79

Post by awakeasleep »

ummonk wrote: post #53
BurningFrog wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds litigation ready!

Second this - this needs to be litigated.

How many hours a week would a person need to dedicate to starting a lawsuit about something like this?

Anyone have experience? Even if a law firm would do 100% of the work & charge on contingency, I bet it still takes 100+ hours for the average joe to research and find the firm to do that.

Re: Amazon establishes new Counterfeit Crimes Unit

#80

Post by jacobush »

throwaway_jobs wrote: post #34
rckoepke wrote: post #11

The categories of things that I've received counterfeit versions of on Amazon have been truly mind-blowing. It's been replacement HEPA filters, cat toys, even breakfast cereal. It's not just earphones/mics, batteries, usb cables, flash drives, extension cords, and other electronics. Who counterfeits breakfast cereal??? I've had this issue with both Quaker Oats and Raisin Bran. The scale of fraud is magnificent. And i…

Here is one (plus the story of a defective product lawsuit behind it). A water slide. The type that bolts down into concrete for use with pools. If the first thing in your mind is...isn’t that something from the 70’s/80’s...yes it is. So the counterfeiter must have molded the entire slide (complete with the company logo that was embossed into the slide itself) thing is that company was dissolved back in the 80’s. So…

Don't worry, long before that day Bezos will have superpacked his way out of such concerns. What is money for, but buying politicians?

(Much less stress than acting politician, just look at the top public servant currently.)

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