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Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

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Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#11

Post by kergonath »

dragonwriter wrote: post #8
kergonath wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that Tolkien wanted to create the equivalent of Nordic mythology for England is very well documented. I don’t have the link off hand, but there are several of his letters on the subject. It is transparent in his drafts from the Book of Lost Tales as well. I don’t think he gave up on that, he was just lost in his sprawling creation. Interestingly, Leaf by Niggle is a perfect allegory for that.

> I don’t think he gave up on that He wrote that he did: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien...

Fair enough.

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#13

Post by macleginn »

One fascinating aspect of Tolkien’s oeuvre is that his writings are, how to put it, endlessly derivative. Not only did he use words from different languages, motifs from different mythologies, and images from different poetical traditions. He also mercilessly raided the writings of George MacDonald for characters and plot elements (try reading ‘Phantastes’ or ‘The Princess and the Goblin’ to appreciate just how freaking much he is indebted to him). And still the end result feels somehow original and fresh. Perhaps, one can say that Tolkien is 20th century‘s Shakespeare: a writer who invented nothing but who was absolutely unrivaled in re-arranging things.

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#15

Post by CamperBob2 »

leereeves wrote: post #12
MintelIE wrote: post #10

I went to the site and started to read but then this page blocker kinda swooped in and faded the page out so I closed the tab. No I’m not giving web sites my email address.

Just click the X in the upper right corner.

No, thanks.

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#16

Post by [deleted] »

macleginn wrote: post #13

One fascinating aspect of Tolkien’s oeuvre is that his writings are, how to put it, endlessly derivative. Not only did he use words from different languages, motifs from different mythologies, and images from different poetical traditions. He also mercilessly raided the writings of George MacDonald for characters and plot elements (try reading ‘Phantastes’ or ‘The Princess and the Goblin’ to appreciate just how freak…

[deleted]

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#17

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #9
Causality1 wrote: post #2

Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…

Maybe so, but please don't post cheap dyspeptic internet dismissals to HN. We're trying for at least a notch better than that here, and we've had to ask you about this multiple times in the past. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[deleted]

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#19

Post by goto11 »

Causality1 wrote: post #2

Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…

I don't see the connection between the quote and the article.

Tolkien is rejecting allegorical reading like "the ring symbolize the coronavirus, Saruman represent Trump" etc.

The article is not about allegory though but about the intentions and influences of Tolkien. Tolkien was open about his influences and at times they are pretty blatant, like directly taking the names of dwarwes from the Edda. Also the whole mythology is directly based on christian mythology, but he didn't consider that allegory but more like a retelling.

Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England

#20

Post by brtkdotse »

goto11 wrote: post #19
Causality1 wrote: post #2

Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…

I don't see the connection between the quote and the article. Tolkien is rejecting allegorical reading like "the ring symbolize the coronavirus, Saruman represent Trump" etc. The article is not about allegory though but about the intentions and influences of Tolkien. Tolkien was open about his influences and at times they are pretty blatant, like directly taking the names of dwarwes from the Edda. Also the whole myth…

> Tolkien is rejecting allegorical reading like "the ring symbolize the coronavirus, Saruman represent Trump" etc.

Brb, gonna make a YouTube-video with a million views.

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