Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
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Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
1–10 of 109 posts
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#2Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article.
As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#3Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
Yeah, this author is off on a few points, sometimes grossly so. Also:
> a land of enchantment and possibility and freedom, with a powerful and complex mythology that would bear comparison with those of any other country.
No, they wouldn't bare comparison with just any other country. Tolkien was writing about his own country, which was England. The English countryside and culture is unique. The Shire, its jokes, its traditions, its lore, is just so obviously an adaption of the early 20th century English-countryside. Sure, there are some vague similarities between other Western countries, but it is so unmistakably English, that trying to make a feel-good statement like this at the end seems horribly forced.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#4Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for deeper, hidden meaning in the LOTR or any other tale set in Middle-Earth. But this article simply describes how Tolkien (allegedly) tried to compose a stronger English mythology, then eventually abandoned the idea and settled for the purely fictional setting that Middle-Earth is. Don't know if this description is factual, but if it is, it wouldn't mean that Tolkien's work is allegorical.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#5Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
Yeah, this author is off on a few points, sometimes grossly so. Also: > a land of enchantment and possibility and freedom, with a powerful and complex mythology that would bear comparison with those of any other country. No, they wouldn't bare comparison with just any other country. Tolkien was writing about his own country, which was England. The English countryside and culture is unique. The Shire, its jokes, its t…
You seem to be interpreting “bear comparison” as “bear resemblance”? The author is saying that the mythology would be of a comparable complexity and caliber (which can be achieved while still being unmistakably English), not that it would resemble European folklore thematically.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#6Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for deeper, hidden meaning in the LOTR or any other tale set in Middle-Earth. But this article simply describes how Tolkien (allegedly) tried to compose a stronger English mythology, then eventually abandoned the idea and settled for the purely fictional setting th…
Tolkien rejected the idea to compare Sauron and Hitler. He rejected that LOTR was his way to handle his war trauma. His biggest argument is that most ideas existed before WW2.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#7Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for deeper, hidden meaning in the LOTR or any other tale set in Middle-Earth. But this article simply describes how Tolkien (allegedly) tried to compose a stronger English mythology, then eventually abandoned the idea and settled for the purely fictional setting th…
The fact that Tolkien wanted to create the equivalent of Nordic mythology for England is very well documented. I don’t have the link off hand, but there are several of his letters on the subject. It is transparent in his drafts from the Book of Lost Tales as well. I don’t think he gave up on that, he was just lost in his sprawling creation. Interestingly, Leaf by Niggle is a perfect allegory for that.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#8Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for deeper, hidden meaning in the LOTR or any other tale set in Middle-Earth. But this article simply describes how Tolkien (allegedly) tried to compose a stronger English mythology, then eventually abandoned the idea and settled for the purely fictional setting th…
The fact that Tolkien wanted to create the equivalent of Nordic mythology for England is very well documented. I don’t have the link off hand, but there are several of his letters on the subject. It is transparent in his drafts from the Book of Lost Tales as well. I don’t think he gave up on that, he was just lost in his sprawling creation. Interestingly, Leaf by Niggle is a perfect allegory for that.
> I don’t think he gave up on that
He wrote that he did: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien...
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#9Tolkien utterly detested people like the author of this article. As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical.... Other arrangements could be devised according to the tastes or views of those who like allegory or topical reference. But I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary en…
Maybe so, but please don't post cheap dyspeptic internet dismissals to HN. We're trying for at least a notch better than that here, and we've had to ask you about this multiple times in the past.
Re: Tolkien’s Mythic Plan for England
#10I went to the site and started to read but then this page blocker kinda swooped in and faded the page out so I closed the tab.
No I’m not giving web sites my email address.