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The End of OS X

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Re: The End of OS X

#521

Post by oneplane »

shmerl wrote: post #490
oneplane wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a rather extremistic view. Apple doesn't support vulkan because they tried to get OpenGL and OpenCL working. Nvidia didn't play ball and AMD wasn't in the picture back then. The result was that Apple had to come up with something else (Metal) and that has worked out great with them. But unless you are writing a graphics engine (which almost no user does) that doesn't even matter. Regarding your openness, you s…

I don't really care for their excuses why they don't do it. Even if anything of that applied in the past, they have no excuse today. The bottom line - they don't do it and don't allow let's say hardware makers to provide drivers, like they can do even on Windows. That alone is an indication that it's anything but open. > You can still run Vulkan on macOS if you want -- you are free to implement it, run it, make shims…

> You aren't free to do that. Hardware drivers for macOS are all controlled by Apple.

No, they are not. Apple ships some drivers themselves because they obviously support the hardware they deliver, but you are free to get your text editor out and write one yourself, compile it, and load it.

Re: The End of OS X

#522

Post by tootie »

trimbo wrote: post #456
tootie wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent $800 on a new Win 10 laptop with an entry-level NVIDIA GPU plus an extra memory stick. Installing the memory took about 10 minutes and was easy enough for my 11-year-old to do herself. It can stream and video conference at once without even getting warm. It can play mid-tier 3d games pretty comfortably. The MBP is so hot its painful. 15 minutes of Zoom or Minecraft is too much. I only need it because I need t…

What laptop did you get?

Acer Nitro 5

Re: The End of OS X

#523

Post by oneplane »

AlphaSite wrote: post #447
sudosysgen wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SSDs don't fail, more RAM isn't needed, and so on, then why do people feel the need to buy a new laptop every three years? I think the percentage of users that would buy a new, 1500$+ machine instead of a small 100$ upgrade is much lower than one expects living in a bit of an echo chamber. There's a lot of people that get burned by outrageous repair prices or that buy new computers when they could simply upgrade a…

How many upgrade their personal laptops every 3 years? Work one, sure. But I haven’t upgraded my Mac in years.

Work one gets at least 4 years of life, it's not good for value beyond that due to write-offs etc, which is somewhat strange when you think about it. After that, they are sold to whoever wants them (we wipe them, clean them and unlock them).

Most people get close to 8 years before they actually want a new one when their work doesn't change much -- if your requirements don't change and your tool fits, no reason to change.

Re: The End of OS X

#524

Post by oneplane »

72deluxe wrote: post #462
oneplane wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario definitely exists, but it also doesn't hit the likes of the user you respond to as much as you might expect. SSD's don't fail the way they used to, RAM requirements don't change as much as it used to and while batteries do die, at this time I've seen more people switch machines before any of that happens. The last time I wanted or needed to replace memory or storage in a laptop must have been 7 years ag…

Why are there so many Apple devices with 8GB RAM for sale on eBay then? The RAM prices for new Apple devices are 3x the normal rate so people get disappointed with all the Electron apps eating RAM and sell it!

I'm not sure that is an indicator of anything at all. You could speculate that people sell their laptops because they want more RAM and that is the one and only reason this is happening. But then that's like what, 100 MacBooks? 1000 maybe? Hardly large in numbers compared to any other laptop from any other brand on eBay.

I know that a lot of people are very emotional about their RAM and SSDs and it can be a PITA, but it doesn't affect as many people as you'd think. At least that's what the available data shows.

Re: The End of OS X

#525

Post by oneplane »

kelnos wrote: post #400
oneplane wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your scenario definitely exists, but it also doesn't hit the likes of the user you respond to as much as you might expect. SSD's don't fail the way they used to, RAM requirements don't change as much as it used to and while batteries do die, at this time I've seen more people switch machines before any of that happens. The last time I wanted or needed to replace memory or storage in a laptop must have been 7 years ag…

> I've seen more people switch machines before any of that happens. My opinion is that people switch machines more often precisely because they're not upgradable/repairable. I think if most people could go to their local computer repair shop to get RAM/storage/etc. replaced or upgraded, we'd have a lot less electronics waste, and consumer computers would last a lot longer. At this point, software CPU and GPU needs ar…

There are plenty of people switching machines that can be completely taken apart and replaced or upgraded component by component. Some other post around here mentioned eBay: plenty of completely modular HP and Dell laptops (and not even in bulk) for sale.

Most computer repair shops around here have disappeared because it's no longer the way people buy and use their computers. At least not enough people to keep those shops running.

Sometimes people upgrade because they feel like it. Doesn't always have to do with the numbers.

Re: The End of OS X

#526

Post by kelnos »

sergeykish wrote: post #476
kelnos wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been running Linux on Macs since my 2005 12" PowerBook. There were a couple years in the middle here I switched to OS X with Linux running in a VM due to hardware support issues (the VM was a pain in the ass to use; there were no end to performance problems). I never liked OS X as an OS all that much. It was fine, but I found it got in my way more than it helped me. In 2016, after getting tired of various hardwa…

You are quite persistent on Mac hardware. Why? It is hostile platform, it should be rough. I use 14" Dell Latitude - no problems at all, beautiful machine. Probably would stay on it or try Asus ZenBook.

Because the hardware is beautiful and the build quality is (was?) excellent. Recent fumbles like the butterfly keyboard design have definitely reduced that perception, though.

I have a Dell XPS 13 now, and while I like it, it's just not as pretty as a MBP. I recognize that that's a highly subjective judgment, but that's a thing that matters to me. The XPS's build quality is good, but not amazing; for example, I've had it for less than a year, and one of the rubber strips on the bottom of the laptop has been peeling off for the last few months.

Overall it just makes me sad that "hostile platform" is even a thing. At this point I've decided that the alternatives are good enough for me, and the better hardware support tips the scales in favor of them.

Re: The End of OS X

#527

Post by winrid »

badRNG wrote: post #210
_bxg1 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linux is only free if your time has no value Hah, that's great. I'll have to tuck that one away.

That was probably a fair assessment a decade ago, but Linux seriously "just works" now. About a year ago I bought a Dell XPS 13, I've thrown Pop!_OS on there, and it worked out of the box, no driver downloads, no sneakernetting Wi-Fi drivers, no codec installs, no track-pad problems (two fingers to right click works!), no scaling issues, no 3rd party repos. It just works. (I'm sure FOSS folks may dislike the distribu…

It only just works for laptops that are slightly older, and with Linux friendly hardware.

For ex: I got a Lenovo X1 Extreme near release date and Linux was a bit of a pain to get working... I actually bricked my first laptop due to a simple bios config change which was actually Lenovo's fault - but I don't have to change those settings to install Windows.

Don't get me wrong. I love Unix/Linux. But saying it just works is misleading.

Re: The End of OS X

#528

Post by rodgerd »

sudosysgen wrote: post #166
parasubvert wrote: post #84

I personally think that the MacBook Pro 16 inch is the world’s best laptop, and look forward to see what the next generations can do. But the whole point has been MacOS. I’m not sure what to think of the changes. If they stabilize the mess that was Catalina, then they’re doing the right things, even with the increased iOS-ification of the Mac. If they just slap more Windows 8 style touch gloss on deep and unresolvabl…

­>inux is only free if your time has no value. I use it as a server OS plenty, but don’t really need it on my desktop. To me this means "I don't know how to get Ubuntu working". Even Arch Linux requires less maintenance for me than my 2013 Macbook Pro did. As soon as you get the setup over with correctly you never have an issue, unless you can't get set it up correctly. Windows is nice when everything works, and if y…

> To me this means "I don't know how to get Ubuntu working".

Yes, I'm sure Jamie Zawinski didn't understand Unix systems well enough to get them running.

Re: The End of OS X

#529

Post by Diesel555 »

davedx wrote: post #252
banachtarski wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just "use linux" and I get all the benefits with much better hardware (more memory, disk storage, speed for compilation), better drivers (important especially for GPU support for either graphics/rendering work or machine learning) and my downsides are... what exactly? Itunes, Mail, etc, none of the software shipping with MacOS is actually any good. I don't use Safari. From your perspective, what aspect of the "cust…

I use Safari as my main browser now due to the password generation/sharing with my iPhone. It's a killer feature for me.

Assumptions: 1) All my devices are Apple 2) I'm not planning on leaving Apple

For all the negative replies I wonder how many people actually have used Keychain. It's very good. I tried onePassword, google's, and firefox's, but none integrates as well among all my devices and with zero effort in the OS as keychain. Anyone leaving negative comments about keychain, at least point out that you've given it the ol' try in the Apple Ecosystem.

Or we have different assumptions and you have devices outside the Apple ecosystem or don't want to be tied to it therefore the benefits I see to keychain don't apply to you.

Also the WWDC yesterday has some cool new features about bad passwords (But I think other password managers already do this).

Re: The End of OS X

#530

Post by NotPractical »

oneplane wrote: post #178
sudosysgen wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy. A new application you have needs more RAM. Your battery is not holding up very well and you want to replace it. Your SSD will fail soon and you want to replace it. I had every single one of those issues on a laptop, and fixing them cost me from 25$ to 100$, about a fifth of what the Apple Store or OEM was quoting me. Instead of being without my laptop for a week or two, I got all of them over in an hour and a h…

Your scenario definitely exists, but it also doesn't hit the likes of the user you respond to as much as you might expect. SSD's don't fail the way they used to, RAM requirements don't change as much as it used to and while batteries do die, at this time I've seen more people switch machines before any of that happens. The last time I wanted or needed to replace memory or storage in a laptop must have been 7 years ag…

I agree in that, these days, I don't see myself wanting to upgrade a laptop's RAM before I'd just replace it with a newer machine. While it would be a nice bonus to have the option, realistically I imagine the 8 GB of memory that comes standard with the baseline MacBook Pro model would be enough for anything I'd personally want to do with a laptop in its lifespan, and I would be willing to sacrifice memory upgradability for a slimmer design, for example.

However, I think Apple (and other laptop manufacturers) cross the line when they ship soldered-in batteries with their laptops. Batteries are consumable components that are guaranteed to degrade over time. Unlike RAM, which, assuming Apple sources it from quality vendors, you can expect to last for many years, laptop batteries will definitely begin to degrade within a few years, and will, over enough time, render the laptop unusable. Apple is producing $1500+ laptops with a non-replaceable component that will, without a doubt, eventually break down. Your options at that point are to buy a new laptop, or to send it to Apple so they can charge an arm and a leg to replace the entire top case instead of just the battery (as that'd be impossible). You should buy a new laptop when you want to, not because you "might as well" without the option of battery replacement, and with Apple's "repair" option costing a quarter of the price of a new one.

Though to a lesser extent, it also irks me that the SSDs are soldered in, not necessarily because I'd want the ability to upgrade them post-purchase, but mainly because your valuable data lives there, and it will become trapped on a dead board if something goes wrong with an unrelated component. Even if failures like this are rare, the threat of data loss while using a MacBook would still concern me more than while using a laptop with a replaceable SSD. I believe Apple has a data recovery procedure, but you'd still have to send your laptop to them and cross your fingers in the event it dies, whereas if the SSD wasn't soldered in, you'd have the option of manually recovering your data, or taking it to a repair shop where they could do it for you.

I would love to see a MacBook Pro with, at the very least, a replaceable battery (but especially with a replaceable SSD as well).

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