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Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

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Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#981
post #596
post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have thunderbolt controllers without an Intel processor, there’s nothing that precludes it from working.

There is one (as in, one) certified AMD motherboard and I can't Intel rushing to help Apple out with TB3 when they are ditching their CPU. No, it will be USB 4.

There are a bunch of 3rd party dock manufacturers (CalDigit, Belkin, Dell, HP, IBM, etc) that incorporate Intel TB controllers without issue.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody gives a crap about the Qualcomm powered notebooks. They're a joke market segment. As long as Apple doesn't start selling A* chips to Samsung or other Android OEMs Qualcomm isn't going to worry.

> As long as Apple doesn't start selling A* chips to Samsung or other Android OEMs Qualcomm isn't going to worry Even if Apple did sell their chips to other parties, Qualcomm will be still collecting its sweet patent royalty from both parties , so it couldn't care less.

The patent royalties are fairly small compared to selling a full chip. They would still be feeling the pinch.

Of course even if Apple did start selling those chips (which they won't) they would charge an arm and a leg for them, because they could. They would only be used in the top of the line flagship phones. Apple has shown zero interest in competing with the bargain basement hardware producers.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#983

Reminds me of a recent LTT video where Linus suspected that the reason Apple was severely under utilising Intel CPUs on their Macs by having poor thermals could be because they wanted to release their own silicon for future Macs and have them compare favourably against previous Intel based Macs.

The same video where he gains ~13% performance by turning the bottom of the laptop into into a heatsink, rendering it a surface too hot to be placed on a lap. Also where chilled-water cooling had no performance gains over the un-lappable laptop. If anything, he debunked his own theory with that experiment.

Yes, that one.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#984

Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…

Apple chips are fast mostly because they have a lot of cache to spare. Take for example the A12Z. It has 8MB of L2 (not L3, it's L2!) cache. An Intel Core i7-1068NG7 present in the latest Macbook Pros (that performs akin to the A12Z according to Geekbench) has only 2MB of L2 cache. No other ARM CPU has this level of L2 cache. Apple chips are not "magical", Apple just can afford packing up lots and lots of cache becau…

In college my comp. architecture prof. used to say 'cache is king'.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#985
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a surprise to anyone paying attention; NeXTSTEP had run on 68K/x86/Sparc/PA-RISC. Removing architecture support would have been remarkable. What's important, for those paying attention, is that Apple promoted PowerPC emulation with the first x86 Macs in OS X 10.4 and then removed it after 10.6. If you think Apple won't screw you again, well, go ahead, it's your money. [Dis]claimer: I have no long or short i…

> [Dis]claimer: I have no long or short in AAPL. Anyone posting or voting in this thread should similarly disclose. It’s extremely weird to me to assume that an opinion someone posts in an online message board will be heavily influenced by their stock portfolio.

It's the other way around, some opinions are intended to influence their stock portfolio value.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#986
post #918

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment made me rewatch that section of the Keynote [1], and I believe you're right. Docker and Parallels were shown in a 'virtualization' subsection, and not the Rosetta subsection. So that must have been ARM64 Debian we saw there indeed. Did I say that their presentation was too fast :) ? That's going to be interesting in the end. Being able to build/smoke test x86 containers on macOS will be important, at lea…

In the “Platforms State of the Union” video, which gets a little bit more technical, 30 minutes in, they are explicitly mentioning the ARM version of Debian Linux and show it off. So yes, we are talking about virtualization of an ARM system here.

That’s cool I’m and of itself though

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#987

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

Why show performance numbers on a machine that will not be going to production?

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#988
post #526
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard from random sources that their GPUs are actually (relatively?) very powerful. Better sources/experience appreciated. "Apple claims the GPU in the iPad Pro is equivalent to an Xbox One S, although how they came to thise conclusion is difficult to say since we know so little about the underpinnings of the GPU." [1] [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro...

I don’t see how an integrated GPU can compete with the top of the line chips from nvidia and amd. The discreet GPUs(Radeon vega) in the Mac Pros have 13+ billion transistors and have 1 TB/s memory bandwidth with specialized memory.

An A12x has 10 billion transistors, and being a SoC the CPU, Neural Engine, ISC and GPU are all integrated.

And that was released in 2018. By the time Apple put out desktop class silcon in end of 2020, surely it will be significantly scaled up?

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#989
post #551

I'd suggest avoiding either hyping or dismissing the new processors. We don't have performance numbers for a real model, and until we do, we know very little. The thing we can talk about is Apple's strategic direction. The good version has Apple releasing a notably superior general purpose computer, maybe even gaining more marketshare in the process. The bad version has the Mac turning into an iOS development station…

Wasn't Linus who said that the reason ARM hasn't taken over the server market is because there are no ARM chips in developer machines? I'm curious if Apple's move is going to finally help ARM succeed on the server side.

Yes I'm interested in the impact of an ARM laptop, ARM VMs/Docker, and AWS Graviton2. Quite an interesting toolset.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#990

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm predicting a future where the os is completely locked down and all software for macs be purchased from the app store. Great revenue model for Apple.

That's basically what Microsoft did with ARM on Windows and I'm sure Apple will take advantage of this opportunity.

The first time (Windows RT), yes, and it was a complete market failure. The new Windows on Arm is not like this.
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