Great to see checks getting written for climate projects again! For anyone who may be interested, there's a supportive climate focused community and interesting climate projects over at https://collective.energy (founder here)
Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
61–70 of 92 posts
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK. Let's say a magic wand is waved, and all of us Americans have bikeable and walkable cities with excellent public transportation. Let's say this happens literally overnight. How do you expect this would change Amazon's logistics and how favorable they are for consumers? For my part, at the very least, I'm still likely to get a lot of things delivered. Local stores are very rarely cheaper for anything non-immediate…
Perhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
> Please stop buying stuff. It's bad for the environment. But also keep working - we need you paying your taxes!
If I'm morally not allowed to buy stuff because its bad for the environment, then what incentive do I have to earn more than 40k/year? Do I exist just to pay taxes to the government to fund "more moral" causes than my own consumption?
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
OK. Let's say a magic wand is waved, and all of us Americans have bikeable and walkable cities with excellent public transportation. Let's say this happens literally overnight. How do you expect this would change Amazon's logistics and how favorable they are for consumers? For my part, at the very least, I'm still likely to get a lot of things delivered. Local stores are very rarely cheaper for anything non-immediate…
Perhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
A universal carbon emissions tax would be an effective magic wand to make people order less stuff.
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
> Please stop buying stuff. It's bad for the environment. But also keep working - we need you paying your taxes! If I'm morally not allowed to buy stuff because its bad for the environment, then what incentive do I have to earn more than 40k/year? Do I exist just to pay taxes to the government to fund "more moral" causes than my own consumption?
Is this a genuine question? There is no obligation to make more than 40k. Instead of making more money you could just work less and do what you like/love (as long as it's not bad for environment).
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
I'm a very strange person in many ways. I personally prefer to be able to make my own choices about how I waste away my free time - Netflix, books, biking, walks, prayer, meditation, yoga, etc. Trading that in for spending more time to get my groceries (or toiletries, or dry goods, or similar) does not sound like an attractive choice to me. I understand that this is an unusual personality trait. Still, I'm reluctant…
I don't think this is about "attractive choices". Either our lifestyles (and those who will live after us) are sustainable or not. If they are not, we should consider changing our behaviour.
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps, we should wave this magic wand to make you order less stuff? No tech can save us unless we start to consume less. Also, we should care less about optimising our time which we are likely to waste anyway on netflix and co.
A universal carbon emissions tax would be an effective magic wand to make people order less stuff.
I assume you mean tax paid with money? That's not a solution. Most, if not all the ways that people make money require emitting more carbon and producing more waste. Such tax would lead to fatal feedback loop.
I'd love to see something like a personal carbon quota, same for every person on a planet.
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#67Suppose the investments turn out to be wildly successful. They turn $2b into $200b. They could still fail at the goal of slowing global warming. The accounting value of an equity, especially a growth stage company, is never the same as its economic value. When in history has accounting (like a price) measured something real / believable about the environment? One way to look at this is what is the environmental impac…
> My point is, equities are ill suited incentives for even economic profits, let alone environmental "profits." What is your alternative proposal? It's not like Amazon's $2B investment in climate tech is mutually exclusive with government initiatives or other climate research. It's another angle to approach the problem, using the tools they have at their disposal. I don't understand the desire to assume the most cyni…
Really depends on HOW they are investing IMO.
2B in equities won't really do anything other than raise the stock prices for green technologies.
2B in green bonds or direct funding may help to move the needle if the case is that these companies are cash strapped.
But, IMO, the thing that will actually move the needle more than anything else is if Amazon takes that 2B and actually goes out and builds out renewable sources and replaces their delivery vehicles with EVs. Because, simply investing in a company that does green things doesn't guarantee actual change.
It would be a sizable impact if they powered all their services with renewable sources, especially if they don't fall back on the grid (so building out storage for themselves).
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My point is, equities are ill suited incentives for even economic profits, let alone environmental "profits." What is your alternative proposal? It's not like Amazon's $2B investment in climate tech is mutually exclusive with government initiatives or other climate research. It's another angle to approach the problem, using the tools they have at their disposal. I don't understand the desire to assume the most cyni…
> What is your alternative proposal? According to the "The Largest Public Statement of Economists in History": a carbon tax and dividend [0]. The technology of markets is one of price signals and feedback loops, generally on time horizons between nano-second HFTs and quarterly earnings reports. Ecological events, occurring on the scale of decades or centuries, require governments (or other forms of collective action)…
The tax & divided definitely seems like an ideal solution, but we can't waste another twenty years trying to convince voters to institute it. Carbon tax & dividend proposals have gone nowhere for twenty years now. Even in Washington, the latest attempt lost by almost 70% against.
Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#69Re: Amazon Announces $2B Fund to Invest in Climate Tech Companies
#70How about them delivery trucks and waste cardboard boxes? Those data centers can also generate a lot of emissions. Amazon is throwing spare change at a massing problem they're involved in.
The good news is corrugated cardboard is one of the most recyclable materials, with a high market value for recycled cardboard. It's probably not the biggest problem right now.