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My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

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Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#61

Post by dhosek »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

[edited to add context] a comprehensive reply to the "what about black on black crime" comment from journalist Michael Harriot.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/126846376828518809...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#62

Post by specialist »

ixtli wrote: post #4

I've lived here a long time and come to the realization through observation that the NYPD operates like a private security force for capital. Their primary concern is to defend private property, the people themselves come second. The "community outreach" they do is just enough to keep us from getting accusatory.

I just read Caro's The Power Broker. People have voiced this criticism for a while now. Change some dates and names, the story could easily be told again today.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#63

Post by dhosek »

treis wrote: post #58
trowawee wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. Most violence is committed by people you're around, and in an intensely segregated country, that will usually be people that are the same race as you. It's a complete digression from the actual conversation here, which is about agents of the state, entrusted to act as enforcers of the state's mono…

>Bringing up "black-on-black crime" is a common disingenuous tactic to distract from conversations about police brutality. It's part of the story, though. The incident in the linked article started because a group of teens jumped another and stole his phone. If that's happening 10x as often then innocent kids in that neighborhood are going to be 10x as likely to be swept up in police action.

[edited to add context] a comprehensive reply to the "what about black on black crime" comment from journalist Michael Harriot.

https://twitter.com/michaelharriot/status/126846376828518809...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#64

Post by ATsch »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

This figure is rarely brought up in good faith, but if you're curious, it mainly consists of inter-gang violence, i.e. turf wars. Which is not generally something regular people are exposed to all that much. It also asumes death could be the only negative outcome of interacting with police.

It is also something exacerbated by the war on drugs, the criminal justice system and deap-seated discrimination. Police seems like a pretty good place to start fighting.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#65

Post by circlefavshape »

FWIW my wife used to know a guy who was a magistrate (a kind of volunteer low level judge) in England. He told her many stories about police telling obvious lies in court in order to justify minor violent behaviour towards suspects.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#66

Post by js2 »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Most white people are killed by white people. This is an artifact of segregation and systematic racism.

But that's beside the point. We fear the police because they operate with impunity, and especially so among black people.

- https://www.vox.com/2016/4/28/11510274/black-on-black-crime-...

- https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/wh...

- https://www.amazon.com/Ghettoside-True-Story-Murder-America-...

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#67

Post by riboflavin »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Jeff Davis? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis

I'm assuming your username is an unfortunate coincidence.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#68

Post by randomcarbloke »

jeffbee wrote: post #50
jeffdavis wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

The difference is in the forward probabilities. Most people who are murdered by criminals are socially connected to their murderers, e.g. they are in gangs. People who are killed by police are killed without that connection, and there's little they could have done about it.

not necessarily on both counts.

But interactions with police are less likely to go smoothly if you're black, and you're more likely to have those interactions, so the perceived threat is real, it's like being into extreme sports.

So I guess that is my assessment of black life in America...it's an "extreme sport" and it shouldn't be.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#69

Post by jayd16 »

jeffdavis wrote: post #44
pjc50 wrote: post #22

> “I blame myself,” she kept saying. “I never let him out on Halloween. A bunch of Black boys together. I shouldn’t have let him out. But he begged me.” Notice that while average white parents might worry about criminals before letting their kids out on the street, the black parents worry (with good reason) about the police. (Just to spell it out: this is why so many BLM activists feel comfortable saying "abolish the…

I looked at the numbers in another comment[1], and it seems that for every one black person killed by police (justifiably or not), over 20 black people are murdered by other blacks. So either there's something wrong with my analysis, or the fear of police is somewhat misplaced. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23579467

Do those "shot and killed by police" numbers include beatings, choking to death, or hit by a car?

Anyway, the presumption that any group should meet some standard before being deemed worth of justice is utterly repulsive.

Re: My family saw a police car hit a kid, then I learned how NYPD impunity works

#70

Post by dhosek »

jeffbee wrote: post #54
danharaj wrote: post #2

The NYPD has a budget for spying on people in other countries. State power is weird.

Does it also seem weird to you that small countries have intelligence bureaus? Denmark and Finland are both less populous than New York City.

So then Walmart should have a spy agency because they're bigger than some countries?
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