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What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

developer.apple.com

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Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#351

Post by pier25 »

lokedhs wrote: post #207
pier25 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Tim said in today's keynote there are 23M Apple developers. Very roughly, 20% of macOS users are developers.

20% of users are Apple developers. There are plenty of developers who use their hardware but don't develop for Apple products (a web developer wouldn't be an Apple developer). Or have things changed since I left the Apple ecosystem? I'm assuming you don't need to be a registered developer to use things like "make" or download IntelliJ IDEA?

Yes you're right, that's what I meant.

If you're doing web dev you don't need to be a registered Apple developer.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#352

Post by TacticalTable »

otherlandlabs wrote: post #323
shp0ngle wrote: post #276

I don't particularly care about the GUI... most of my time on my Mac is browser (Chrome), terminal, and Electron apps. Even my IDE is just Electron. The new Finder and menus look ugly, but frankly, in the age of Electron everything, the OS UX doesn't matter that much, as every app has its own one, reimplemented in JavaScript and React. Slack still looks like Slack in Big Sur, in Catalina, in Windows 10.

I, for a change, would pay money for MacOS _native_ Slack app.

Perhaps the Ipad Slack app running as native? I think we're going to see Catalyst improve the MacOS experience greatly.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#353

Post by tolger »

_jal wrote: post #39
breakfastduck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think the new UI looks great. People are taking the UI / ARM change as apple taking away more control, but macOS is THE development platform of the entire apple ecosystem. So yeah, the ecosystem may be tighter knitted, but they sure as hell will not lock down macOS like they do iOS, they have so many mac users who are developers and apple are absolutely aware of that. People complain about features in cata…

> it's incredibly easy to bypass the stuff that makes a difference using the terminal Not my experience. It took a couple weeks of noodling to get parts of my environment moved over, and some of my automation I just moved to a linux box because I got sick of it. > we've somehow got to the point where people bash apple for actually taking privacy and security seriously Wow. On the planet I use a Mac on, the complaints…

I'm in a similar situation. As a UNIX, command-line user I've noticed that every release they make things harder for us. Yeah, Homebrew is great, but Apple doesn't support it and they could break things anytime.

Lately, I've been doing most of my dev work on a Windows 10 machine using WSL. It's come a long way and is very usable now.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#354

Post by derefr »

michaelmrose wrote: post #326
derefr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On a desktop, with a mouse, I have near-perfect precision. I don't need overly-padded icons and windows because I have the precision of a mouse. You do, but not everyone does. Consider the accessibility needs of people with motor-degenerative diseases like Parkinson's or Huntington's. Won't they be better-served by larger click-targets?

Are we to believe that the UI is designed for people with disabilities or just hoping that this one aspect will make things slightly easier as an unintentional byproduct in between the time they roll it out and some future time when they change it? Although 930k individuals in the US suffer from Parkinsons given the economic cost including medication, lose of income etc which averages about 24k per individual it seem…

> Although 930k individuals in the US suffer from Parkinsons given the economic cost including medication, lose of income etc which averages about 24k per individual it seems likely that few of them are enjoying mac laptops even compared to the general population that is 10 times more likely to run windows.

I would note that many people with disabilities use iOS devices. The layer-stack of iOS APIs has been top-to-bottom engineered with accessibility considerations in mind, rather than it being worked in after-the-fact; so accessibility features on iOS are a lot more “universal” than ones on other OSes. iPhones are basically “the” phone for the blind, for one thing.

Not saying that rebuts your other points. Just pointing out that when you have a disability, “cost” becomes just a matter of how long you need to save up for it; while “has the particular benefit” is the difference between the device being at all useful for you, vs. not. There’s no point in buying something that’s half the price if you can’t use it.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#355

Post by Hackbraten »

tolger wrote: post #353
_jal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's incredibly easy to bypass the stuff that makes a difference using the terminal Not my experience. It took a couple weeks of noodling to get parts of my environment moved over, and some of my automation I just moved to a linux box because I got sick of it. > we've somehow got to the point where people bash apple for actually taking privacy and security seriously Wow. On the planet I use a Mac on, the complaints…

I'm in a similar situation. As a UNIX, command-line user I've noticed that every release they make things harder for us. Yeah, Homebrew is great, but Apple doesn't support it and they could break things anytime. Lately, I've been doing most of my dev work on a Windows 10 machine using WSL. It's come a long way and is very usable now.

It’s unlikely that Apple break Homebrew. On the contrary, Apple is helping Homebrew tackle the architecture transition.

Having said that: I agree, WSL is pretty amazing.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#356

Post by Koshkin »

mixedCase wrote: post #175
Koshkin wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing. It’s just not “the height of desktop experience,” is all.

What's the height of the desktop experience?

It's a deep question. Some think that it is a bunch of virtual terminal windows (the idea driven to the extreme in the GUI of Plan 9), while some would feel at home with a desktop being kind of a picture of a real desk. Still others would prefer a desktop that consistently follows an object-oriented pattern: you click on an icon and get a list of the object's properties and methods. (Unfortunately, too many screenshots that are meant to showcase desktops that people like just show a flowery background image and a bunch of random windows on top of it containing a picture of a cat or some manga drawing.)

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#358

Post by jablan »

saagarjha wrote: post #318
jtvjan wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Yosemite the green button worked like a maximize button, and you had a separate fullscreen button on the other side. Now you need to ⌥-click the green button to maximize.

No, that's not what it does on macOS. It simply makes the window larger and has done that ever since it was introduced, I believe. (I think for many document-based apps this just means to make the window taller, for example.)

IIRC the green button was "zoom", meaning it should adapt the window size to the window content, which in most of the cases resulted with maximizing.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#359

Post by jablan »

Toutouxc wrote: post #291
jablan wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as an occasional MacOS user, it still pisses me off when I discover that maximize button is in fact full screen button.

Yeah, except it is NOT a "maximize" button and never was. macOS just doesn't do maximized apps the way Windows and some Linux DEs do.

I know, but it as close to maximize as it gets. That's not my point, but that the behavior has changed dramatically.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#360

Post by UIZealot »

RivieraKid wrote: post #159
filleduchaos wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I download an app (.dmg) and click it, it shows up as a new disk. WTF? So download (or provide for download) a .pkg instead of a, you know, Apple Disk Image file

If I download a popular app and it shows up as a disk image, it's not really my fault. This is a UX fail. Apple has the power to fix this. Normal people don't know and don't want to know what are apple disk images and what's the difference between .pkg and .dmg.

I think this is a case of "that's how it's always been done".

My understanding is that it's done this way so that there's a consistent experience installing software from a CD/DVD or from a download online.

But I think you're right, Apple should've rethought the software installation process the moment they dropped the optical drive from their computers.

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