I Am Deleting the Blog • Hacker News Board

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#581

Post by lghh » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:38 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #565

tomrod wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear which country and which side of the spectrum you're referring to. This is why I like to use science as a guide (not a decision point), for then there is a chance to be self-correcting.

Yes science can be a good guide. The trouble is that some left-wing social movements explicitly reject science (and Enlightenment values in general) as a tool of the oppressor. There are certain things you're not allowed to say regardless of scientific evidence. For one example, look what happened to scientific critics of Lysenkoism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism#Effects

> left-wing social movements explicitly reject science (and Enlightenment values in general) as a tool of the oppressor

I have not seen this, at least on a large scale. Are there specific events you are referencing?

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#582

Post by blaser-waffle » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

artsyca wrote: post #418

gringoDan wrote: post #394

Reading this made me think of two essays I've recently revisited. 1. The Sound of Silence, by Jessica Livingston Three years ago she argued that the smartest people are silencing themselves because the downside risk of being attacked for (misinterpretations of) their opinions are too high. People are wary of sharing useful information outside of trusted circles, which serves to consolidate power with insiders – those…

I'd say this forum is exactly this. How often have I self censored because I just don't want the downvotes?

Why do you care about invisible internet points? Create an alt-account and use it in good faith.

There is a chilling effect happening, and people need to be able to make unpopular arguments -- again, in good faith.

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#583

Post by nutshell89 » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

dTal wrote: post #458

ve55 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of political extremists hate people like Scott, and it has caused him a lot of trouble in the past. This is why anonymity is more important now than ever, because just writing a scientific blog about interesting topics can make you the target of witch hunts designed to ruin your life and kill you. It's hard to describe how bad these things can get out of nowhere without having been through some of it or seeing…

What kind of "people like Scott", and what kind of political extremists? I see a dead comment has cited "racial science" and "conservatives", seemingly out of nowhere. Has Scott written something "controversial" that I missed? Something that would offend the left wing? If so, I can well believe that NYT would take it into their heads to write a semi-hit-piece on someone they perceive to be some sort of Jordan Peterso…

Scott in his open thread a few weeks ago [0], posted a brief request for help by Steve Hsu, an MSU professor who endorses research into using genetic modification to increase human intelligence and blogs on scientific racism [1].

[0] https://web.archive.org/web/20200617034621/https://slatestar...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hsu

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#584

Post by josinalvo » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

entropyneur wrote: post #495

gringoDan wrote: post #394

Reading this made me think of two essays I've recently revisited. 1. The Sound of Silence, by Jessica Livingston Three years ago she argued that the smartest people are silencing themselves because the downside risk of being attacked for (misinterpretations of) their opinions are too high. People are wary of sharing useful information outside of trusted circles, which serves to consolidate power with insiders – those…

I love "What You Can't Say" and have incorporated the conformist test into my moral compass. But I think the shift to use of shame for society regulation is a positive development. I'd much rather be downvoted on HN or called names on Twitter than beaten up or deprived of freedom. But maybe that's just me.

Maybe it is like police and tasers?

In theory, tasers are good because they can substitute shooting.

In practice, you had 5 shootings, and now you have 4 shootings and 200 taser uses

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#585

Post by holtalanm » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

tinyhouse wrote: post #578

gringoDan wrote: post #394

Reading this made me think of two essays I've recently revisited. 1. The Sound of Silence, by Jessica Livingston Three years ago she argued that the smartest people are silencing themselves because the downside risk of being attacked for (misinterpretations of) their opinions are too high. People are wary of sharing useful information outside of trusted circles, which serves to consolidate power with insiders – those…

I was just thinking about this now after reading attacks on Yann Lecun on twitter. He's a prominent AI figure (head of facebook research and turing award recipient). My interpretation - he was saying that bias in AI is mostly a problem of data. He didn't say there's no bias or that you can't solve bias with modeling. Just that the model itself isn't what causing the bias. One woman researcher started attacking him an…

It has been this way for a while. Outrage/cancel culture is an absolute pox upon our population that really needs to stop.

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#586

Post by criddell » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #511

entropyneur wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love "What You Can't Say" and have incorporated the conformist test into my moral compass. But I think the shift to use of shame for society regulation is a positive development. I'd much rather be downvoted on HN or called names on Twitter than beaten up or deprived of freedom. But maybe that's just me.

> But I think the shift to use of shame for society regulation is a positive development. I'd much rather be downvoted on HN or called names on Twitter than beaten up or deprived of freedom. It's easy to require due process prior to anyone being deprived of freedom, and we generally see this as a positive development, compared to the alternative. Using "shame" (aka witch hunts, cyber bullying and the like) to punish…

If somebody is saying hurtful things, what's the due process to address that? Before the digital age, didn't we always manage that kind of thing through a type of social contract?

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#587

Post by jeffreyrogers » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:43 PM UTC

This is a shame. I've read Scott's blog for years and have always been impressed with his intelligence, decency, and intellectual honesty. It's unfortunate that the current environment is forcing out people like Scott and replacing him with others who aren't nearly so conscientious and fair.

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#588

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

tomrod wrote: post #478

cousin_it wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen moral fashions. What's happening now is bigger, rarer and worse. It's known as a "purity spiral" (Haynes), "mass movement" (Hoffer), "political religion" (Voegelin).

It's unclear which country and which side of the spectrum you're referring to. This is why I like to use science as a guide (not a decision point), for then there is a chance to be self-correcting.

[deleted]

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#589

Post by cambalache » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #573

nradov wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Left-wing social movements, while initially well intentioned, tend to eat their own in escalating purity spirals. Total ideological purity is demanded, and valued above competence or actual results. The apotheosis tends to be something like Communist "self-criticism" sessions where people are forced to confess their thought crimes. https://unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a...

> Left-wing social movements, while initially well intentioned, tend to eat their own in escalating purity spirals. That's not particularly true of left-wing movements; to the extent it's true of them it's also true of right-wing movements. The relevant factors are orthogonal to the left-right axis.

Except it is, and not because "leftists" are bad or anything. I consider myself a leftist. It is because leftism promotes a resistance and challenging to authority and a prior belief in the goodness of the downtrodden masses. None of those are wrong per se, they are even healthy, but when they are perverted and distorted they can easily led to circuses like the cultural revolution in China. Right-wing ideologies usually promote submission to authority and traditionalism. The problems that come with excesses in that front are of a different kind.

Re: I Am Deleting the Blog

#590

Post by zadokshi » Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 1:44 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #497

_wldu wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great post. I wish more people would genuinely listen to those they disagree with. When we shut people down or make them feel uncomfortable/threatened to the point that they won't speak, what have we gained?

> I wish more people would genuinely listen to those they disagree with. I had a bit of this discussion on HN not long ago. I love to debate and hear ideas from those I disagree with. But, that's not what people are often doing today. They are using your statement to appeal to others to listen and accept their clearly racist ideas or provable wrong, anti-science ideas. IMO, it's intellectually dishonest and a debate…

> They are using your statement to appeal to others to listen and accept their clearly racist ideas or provable wrong, anti-science ideas.

“Yes clearly other people are stupid. The only ideas that should be exposed to the public are my own ideas. People other than myself apparently don’t have functioning brains, or they would all think what I think. So instead I must fight to have all opposing ideas erased.”