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CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

engadget.com

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Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#11

Post by crispyambulance »

I'm surprised it got through. $23B is a lot of money, and it will cost A LOT more when you start adding up the operational costs. In comparison, the space shuttle was $1.5B per launch "amortized" over 135 launches.

One of the effects of the Space Shuttle is that it hogged the budget of NASA (around 30%). Really worthwhile exploration and other space science programs got less funding because the Shuttle program was so big in cost.

Is the FCC going to do the same for Physics? There's an opportunity cost here that isn't getting addressed.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#12

Post by The_rationalist »

blueblisters wrote: post #4

> It could be a hard sell, especially as the new collider wouldn’t have as clear a goal as the LHC did. However, particle physics and the Standard Model are at a place where the application of science is needed to validate theories. I mean I understand the need to keep pushing the boundaries of fundamental physics, but how long do you justify such spending on a single project? That same money could possibly be pumped…

Or 23 Billions for building the first serious AGI project!

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#16

Post by dilivion »

codegladiator wrote: post #6

I guess this might be a stupid question, but how does the size of the circle matter ? I mean, the particles are going in a round, wouldn't that be like infinite from the particles prespective, so is it related to the turn rate or something ?

The particles are steered round the accelerator with magnetic fields from superconducting magnets.

Higher speeds (and thus energies) can be achieved by increasing the circular circuit radius by limiting the force that has to be applied and the energy loss in the acceleration (change of direction around the circle).

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#17

Post by f00zz »

Honest question, what are some engineering spin-offs that could come out of this? I'm asking because I'm reminded of a Peter Thiel interview where it's mentioned that, despite changing our view of the universe, no "real world" applications came out of the quark model discovered in the 1960s.

This is different from a project like ITER, which is also hugely expensive but could be a game changer.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#18

Post by mathattack »

fnord77 wrote: post #14

$2 billion was sunk into this 40 TeV collider before it was cancelled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_Super_Collider

Canceled in part because of our $255 billion budget deficit, a number that seems quaint today.

Re: CERN approves plans for a $23B, 62-mile long super-collider

#20

Post by dgellow »

blueblisters wrote: post #4

> It could be a hard sell, especially as the new collider wouldn’t have as clear a goal as the LHC did. However, particle physics and the Standard Model are at a place where the application of science is needed to validate theories. I mean I understand the need to keep pushing the boundaries of fundamental physics, but how long do you justify such spending on a single project? That same money could possibly be pumped…

> That same money could possibly be pumped into more immediately useful "hard" applied problems like fusion reactors

Interesting, I just checked the number for ITER (i.e: Europe's main fusion project), the project has been estimated at around €20-30 billion (with some pessimistic estimates from the US at around €60 billion for the completion of the reactor). And that's considered a VERY HIGH cost and has been the main concern from participating countries. But somehow $23 billion for a new collider have been approved?

Edit: correction, $23 billion haven't been approved, the plans for a potential collider, estimated at $23 billion, have been approved.

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