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What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

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Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#161
post #118
post #2

Wait macOS 11, not 10.16. I assume this is a breaking change then?

Less breaking than going from 10.14 to 10.15, but they did drop support for my laptop (although I think the usual pattern is another year or two of security updates, so I guess I'll see when I'm replacing it).

The transition from PowerPC to Intel occurred at 10.4.4. Think this is probably an homage to Jobs (who famously said that OS X would last two decades).

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple knows that a large percentage of the people who buy its computers are software engineers I suspect a large percentage of software engineers buy their computers, but I'm skeptical at the assertion that a large percentage of people who buy their computers are software engineers.

At the last WWDC, Apple mentioned that of all of the so called "creative professionals" on the Mac, software developers were the largest group. I don't know how large the percentage is exactly, but its clearly significant.

Considering they intentionally got rid of, say, video editors as a professional group that used Macs, it may be more of a case of "who is left."

One of these days I'll write a todo list manager to replace OmniFocus and then be able to switch platforms.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that and the fact that tech website users basically complain about every UI change. Hacker News is full of people who think XFCE is the height of desktop experience. This is fundamentally different than apple’s core fan base who seem to like any change just for the sake of change.

I feel exposed :D. I really enjoy using XFCE and run it on all my machines.

Why are they hating on or even mentioning XFCE? XFCE can both act and look like Berdoo / San Bernadino, the last OS11 release, what's the problem with it?

You new-fangled San Berdoo OSXI users get off my lawn.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#164
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an installer program, like on Windows. Or as an installable package (Mac OS should have an integrated package management system like Homebrew).

macOS installers exist; I think they were used more commonly before the .app format, but that's how you get the Windows situation where the "uninstall" operation is a crapshoot because relevant files are scattered across your system. I don't know the exact purpose behind the "mount a virtual drive to install an app" model, but it seems far too deliberate to not have a purpose.

I'm sure there's some rationale behind it. But it's simply a UX fail.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#165
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that and the fact that tech website users basically complain about every UI change. Hacker News is full of people who think XFCE is the height of desktop experience. This is fundamentally different than apple’s core fan base who seem to like any change just for the sake of change.

> Hacker News is full of people who think XFCE is the height of desktop experience. There are those of us who will have to choose a new DE because Big Sur apparently won't run on our perfectly capable pre-2013 MBPs, and have to choose the least clunky. In that group, Xfce is indeed the bees knees.

XFCE is good yes. I don't understand why anyone has problems with it. It's perhaps projecting. They're projecting. Wishing their San Bernadino OS Eleven looked as good as XFCE. It takes nine minutes to set up an XFCE desktop looking better than OS XI San Bernadino. So I mean, obviously they're retro-projecting or whatever we'd call it. XFCE for life.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#166
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an installer program, like on Windows. Or as an installable package (Mac OS should have an integrated package management system like Homebrew).

macOS installers exist; I think they were used more commonly before the .app format, but that's how you get the Windows situation where the "uninstall" operation is a crapshoot because relevant files are scattered across your system. I don't know the exact purpose behind the "mount a virtual drive to install an app" model, but it seems far too deliberate to not have a purpose.

To be fair, there is no supported way to uninstall a .app with all of the scattered files, either (all of the things it places in ~/Library to run, like preferences).

For me, AppCleaner is one of the first things I download on a new machine.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#167
post #18

I have to be honest and go completely against the crowd here - but I think the UI updates are very good. They make the two OSes look cohesive but in a tasteful way. The extra padding in all of the UI is the only thing that I chafe at a little bit, it feels unnecessary. I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. So I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. I don't see any big functional chan…

iOS and macOS should not look or act similarly, though. A UI should look the way it does in order to optimize efficiency and enjoyment. iOS has a touch UI for devices ~6 inches wide, and no keyboard. macOS has a KB/M UI for devices 13-34 inches wide with a keyboard and mouse, or worse even, a trackpad. You cannot make one more like the other without making it worse.

Levelling your UI to the lowest common denominator is a sure fire way of making it worse and reduces the efficiency and ability of everyone in the long run. macOS and iOS should be entirely distinct UI wise.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#168
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. Why not? I think its a distinct possibility.

I think the "you can run iOS apps on your Mac now" announcement basically guaranteed touchscreen Macs. It might be possible to use many iOS apps with a trackpad, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. Put together a touch-friendly new OS UI with the ability to run a zillion apps designed-for-touch in a context where all your competition has touch-enabled devices and it's hard to believe they'd hold out any l…

That's assuming that ios apps on the Mac are a big feature. They might just be some novelty to sell the move to arm, or a first step towards some sort of universal apps that just switch their ui according to the device they're used in.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#169
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why Apple provides an accessibility panel in system settings.

Normally, yes; but sometimes the change required to help one group doesn't hinder anyone else, and also is very hard to automatically derive the "accessible" version of the UX in a way that doesn't cause more harm than help (by e.g. accidentally pushing critical buttons out of visibility into a slide menu; or breaking a menu onto two lines such that there's less viewport left than originally designed for at minimum h…

If you want to make a UI more accessible to people that can't point easily the fix is a mouse with filtering and keyboard UI control, and crucially a way to click without moving the mouse. Not making the buttons slightly bigger.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#170
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's been the trend for a while, but in the case of the proxy icon, the types of interactions you could perform with it were mostly undiscoverable and unknown to a lot of users. You had to actively explore the way the UI worked to figure it out, but I can't say I'm a fan of the change either.

> in the case of the proxy icon, the types of interactions you could perform with it were mostly undiscoverable and unknown to a lot of users. That's a good point I hadn't thought of -- I love the proxy icon. I'm glad it's still there, but this kind of feels like Apple is implicitly saying, "Look, for the ten of you who knew what this was, you still do it, but we're just hiding it from everyone else, sorry."

It’s easy to take every UI change as an affront, particularly when somebody changes something we liked. Just from what I’ve seen though, it appears the goal is a simply a more space efficient UI. It’s not a bad goal, even though I still want to beat them over the head with the Dock which functioned better under NeXTSTEP than it ever did under Mac OS X, and the stoplight isn’t doing anyone any favors over the Mac OS 9 window controls.

I guess I shouldn’t be fighting the wars of 20 years ago though. It is what it is, and since the goal seems to be to rebuild everything in SwiftUI eventually, maybe the Dock will finally be reconsidered in the next few versions when they get around to it.

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