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What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

developer.apple.com

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Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#91

Post by derefr »

dlivingston wrote: post #82
derefr wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On a desktop, with a mouse, I have near-perfect precision. I don't need overly-padded icons and windows because I have the precision of a mouse. You do, but not everyone does. Consider the accessibility needs of people with motor-degenerative diseases like Parkinson's or Huntington's. Won't they be better-served by larger click-targets?

That is why Apple provides an accessibility panel in system settings.

Normally, yes; but sometimes the change required to help one group doesn't hinder anyone else, and also is very hard to automatically derive the "accessible" version of the UX in a way that doesn't cause more harm than help (by e.g. accidentally pushing critical buttons out of visibility into a slide menu; or breaking a menu onto two lines such that there's less viewport left than originally designed for at minimum height.)

In such cases, it makes a lot of sense to just give the change to everybody, so that you can design the UX once, with the change in place.

See also: modern TV shows and films that make sure to not put anything important where closed-captions would appear—they're designing once, assuming captioning.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#92

Post by spike021 »

dimmke wrote: post #18

I have to be honest and go completely against the crowd here - but I think the UI updates are very good. They make the two OSes look cohesive but in a tasteful way. The extra padding in all of the UI is the only thing that I chafe at a little bit, it feels unnecessary. I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. So I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. I don't see any big functional chan…

>It seems like people think that because they're taking design cues from iOS they intend to lock it down like iOS and they're transferring that fear into dislike of the new UI itself.

This has been the fear for the last 10 or so years, maybe longer. It hasn't strictly happened yet. Maybe someday, but this definitely isn't it.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#93

Post by masswerk »

Two observations regarding the former title bar:

* Putting the title (folder name) before the controls introduces a fundamental instability, much like OS X did with the menu bar by placing the named app menu before any other menus. Also, the amount of available space for displaying a longer title/file name seems limited.

* It seems, the proxy icon is gone. I can't see which element could bear the functionality in place. The title is already editable, making it dragable as well might be too much. Is this the beginning of the end of the drag-and-drop paradigm? (Notably, it doesn't suit touch interfaces well. Many aspects of these changes seem to prepare "touchability".)

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#94

Post by laser »

sapsan wrote: post #63
jefftk wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That text seems not to be there now?

I think the quote is from the keynote itself. Here's the timestamp: https://youtu.be/GEZhD3J89ZE?t=4250 .

For some reason the CC is out of sync, it's couple minutes earlier https://youtu.be/GEZhD3J89ZE?t=4122

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#95

Post by zozbot234 »

mxcrossb wrote: post #46
dimmke wrote: post #18

I have to be honest and go completely against the crowd here - but I think the UI updates are very good. They make the two OSes look cohesive but in a tasteful way. The extra padding in all of the UI is the only thing that I chafe at a little bit, it feels unnecessary. I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. So I'm not sure what there is to get upset about. I don't see any big functional chan…

Well that and the fact that tech website users basically complain about every UI change. Hacker News is full of people who think XFCE is the height of desktop experience. This is fundamentally different than apple’s core fan base who seem to like any change just for the sake of change.

Some UI changes make sense. You wouldn't want to run XFCE on a touch-capable device, whereas GNOME3 is perfect for that use case. But the macOS UX changes make no sense to me. And really, even OS X itself has always been quite confusing, compared to its more traditional alternatives. Now we're finally on Mac OS 11, but that hasn't changed either.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#96

Post by dimmke »

mkozlows wrote: post #83
jayd16 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. Why not? I think its a distinct possibility.

I think the "you can run iOS apps on your Mac now" announcement basically guaranteed touchscreen Macs. It might be possible to use many iOS apps with a trackpad, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. Put together a touch-friendly new OS UI with the ability to run a zillion apps designed-for-touch in a context where all your competition has touch-enabled devices and it's hard to believe they'd hold out any l…

That's an interesting point, I didn't think about that. Plus, the extra padding would make more sense then. Maybe they are planning on adding it.

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#97

Post by robterrell »

aardshark wrote: post #55
breakfastduck wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, I think the new UI looks great. People are taking the UI / ARM change as apple taking away more control, but macOS is THE development platform of the entire apple ecosystem. So yeah, the ecosystem may be tighter knitted, but they sure as hell will not lock down macOS like they do iOS, they have so many mac users who are developers and apple are absolutely aware of that. People complain about features in cata…

> it's incredibly easy to bypass the stuff that makes a difference using the terminal. Try running dtrace without having to configure a bunch of settings and restarting your Mac. Then you have to change the settings back and restart again to go back to the way it was. It's a pain in the hole, and for basically no reason.

Isn't Instruments based on dtrace?

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#98

Post by robterrell »

mkozlows wrote: post #83
jayd16 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't think they're going to put out touch screen Macs. Why not? I think its a distinct possibility.

I think the "you can run iOS apps on your Mac now" announcement basically guaranteed touchscreen Macs. It might be possible to use many iOS apps with a trackpad, but it's not going to be a pleasant experience. Put together a touch-friendly new OS UI with the ability to run a zillion apps designed-for-touch in a context where all your competition has touch-enabled devices and it's hard to believe they'd hold out any l…

Touchscreen Macs running iOS apps... At that point, what exactly is the difference between the product lines?

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#99

Post by type0 »

hactually wrote: post #60
Macha wrote: post #19

The integration of tall title bars with toolbars is really reminding me of Gnome 3 here.

It looks so much like Gnome that I was honestly surprised. The new header bars and merged controls are almost exact matches... I wonder if they'll contribute anything back upstream

> I wonder if they'll contribute anything back upstream

we could only wish that

Re: What’s New in macOS Big Sur: Human Interface Guidelines

#100

Post by zozbot234 »

derefr wrote: post #77
jacurtis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. The only real gripe I feel is that excessive padding. It is sort of like scrolling through Dribbble app mockups. The layouts look amazing as a mockup, but when you actually go to make or use the app it isn't as practical as you want. On a desktop, with a mouse, I have near-perfect precision. I don't need overly-padded icons and windows because I have the precision of a mouse. The extra padding jus…

> On a desktop, with a mouse, I have near-perfect precision. I don't need overly-padded icons and windows because I have the precision of a mouse. You do, but not everyone does. Consider the accessibility needs of people with motor-degenerative diseases like Parkinson's or Huntington's. Won't they be better-served by larger click-targets?

You can always slow down the pointer movement itself to compensate for that loss in precision. With a well-chosen acceleration curve, that doesn't hinder you from covering even large, screen-wide distances with just a quick flick of the pointing device.
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