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Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

nature.com

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Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#141
post #102
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That responsibility includes helping the police (and others) do their jobs well. It's just as much about participation as it is non-participation.

Well, as a mathematician (or I think, more accurately in the context this article is talking about, a statistician). You do have a responsibility to make sure you work is used honestly and correctly. If someone is taking findings and tools you've developed and misapplying them to make the world less just then you need to take a stand and make sure they're used properly. Also I think the US has a real problem with val…

I don't believe it's an 'American' thing so much as what exists without community/communitarian cultural values embedded in society.

50% of the rules for our socialisation are encoded in the 'ether' which is to say the rituals, norms, policies, procedures of what is considered 'normative' in any region, organisation, community. In most 'old world' countries you see these rules as thick as sauce everywhere, and of course they can be suffocating and often a roadblock to progress. But usually they provide the foundations for good social behaviour as well.

The Scandinavian countries are like this - visiting those places it feels a little bit like a nation-sized cult, where everyone is obeying an invisible set of rules. But it would appear differently to them obviously, if their instinct is to closely match their peers behaviour and adhere to whatever norms are there. The Swedish press, in particular, doesn't feel like a 'free press' as we would have it, but rather a loose set of groups acting in an ordained fashion for the 'good of society'. They act like a collective version of the BBC or CBC - the official mandate is not there ... but the cultural mandate is just the same. From the outside, it looks like a lack of 'freedom of the press' and maybe paternalistic, but they would see it differently of course.

In the 'new world', absent those implied rules, and possibly with the support of neoliberal ideals, and also the notion that 'everyone is doing it' - it's just easy to think in more narrow, self-oriented terms, and so you get these kinds of attitudes.

I do however believe that most researchers are a fairly pro-social, moral bunch, and I also believe that most police are as well and their intentions are mostly good and so I'm doubtful of existential concern here, other than to say ... we need to 'keep an eye on it' and think about issues thoughtfully. I'm more concerned about unecessary surveillance, lack of judicial oversight and process, than any kind of algorithm.

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#142

I wonder if any of the scientist or commenters in this thread have ever lived in a bad hood. The hoods require more and better policing, the worst offenders, who kill orders of magnitude more people are criminal gangs. You remove police - you'll get spike in homicides.

Does it occur that the gangs are an attempt from within consistently brutalized communities to mirror their brutalizers

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#143
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just driving or walking around a neighbourhood, it's doing your best to find the maximum amount of crime. Otherwise, you wouldn't need mathematical models in order to optimize the "efficacity" of the operation. The vast majority of crime where police should be involved are crimes where the victim can call the police later. For those that don't fit this criteria, either police patrols are already ineffective…

I guess I don't really understand what is generally wrong with a police officer looking for a crime being committed in public and then stopping it?

We create what we look for

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any data to back up that claim, other than anecdotal "evidence"? Here's some real data: https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rpa11.pdf Across all races and Hispanic origin, American Indians and Alaska Natives (15%) and persons of two or more races (15%) had the highest rates of reporting crime or neighborhood disturbances to the police. No statistical difference was observed between the percentage of white…

Quick search, https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/police-... And then there is the fact that illegal immigrants do not call the police for their fears.

> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/police-....

3 people "screened and analyzed" 1.1 million calls and found out that there was a (presumably temporary) effect on minorities after one much-discussed incident involving minorities? The rest is cherry-picked examples and wild conjecture and not thorough analysis of the data.

> illegal immigrants do not call the police for their fears.

Um, that's because they're illegal and has nothing to do with racism.

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#145
post #81

The last 40 years of austerity politics in the US have starved the beast [0] so greatly that the only remaining public infrastructure that functions as it's intended to is policing. For example, in the city of LA, 53% of the city's unrestricted general fund budget went to the LAPD. For everything else, there are parallel infrastructures for the haves - private education, private healthcare, privatized transit, etc. I…

There is no austerity. Here is state-and-local spending as a percentage of GDP from 1970 to present: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/courses-images-archive-re... And here is GDP in 2010 dollars: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?location... State and local governments went from spending 10% of $23,000 per person to 15% of $55,000 per person. Per-person state and local spending went up by a factor…

My favorite example: the American government spends more on health care than any other OECD government, for much less coverage.

https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#146
post #81

The last 40 years of austerity politics in the US have starved the beast [0] so greatly that the only remaining public infrastructure that functions as it's intended to is policing. For example, in the city of LA, 53% of the city's unrestricted general fund budget went to the LAPD. For everything else, there are parallel infrastructures for the haves - private education, private healthcare, privatized transit, etc. I…

> private education, private healthcare, privatized transit

After defunding the police, they'll have private security as well.

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#147
post #89
post #81

The last 40 years of austerity politics in the US have starved the beast [0] so greatly that the only remaining public infrastructure that functions as it's intended to is policing. For example, in the city of LA, 53% of the city's unrestricted general fund budget went to the LAPD. For everything else, there are parallel infrastructures for the haves - private education, private healthcare, privatized transit, etc. I…

And this is exactly where the "Defund the Police" movement comes from and seems like an extremely good movement to pursue - shift that budget balance back in favor of specialized agencies that can better support social needs rather than forcing it all onto the police force. I really just wish it had gotten a better name since that title for the idea really divides people before they even open their minds.

> since that title for the idea really divides people before they even open their minds.

Hence the brilliant onion headline, "‘So, It Means Making The Police Lose Their Homes And Forcing Them To Get A Divorce?’ Says Nation Still Struggling To Understand How Defunding The Police Works"

https://www.theonion.com/so-it-means-making-the-police-lose-...

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#148
post #89
post #81

The last 40 years of austerity politics in the US have starved the beast [0] so greatly that the only remaining public infrastructure that functions as it's intended to is policing. For example, in the city of LA, 53% of the city's unrestricted general fund budget went to the LAPD. For everything else, there are parallel infrastructures for the haves - private education, private healthcare, privatized transit, etc. I…

And this is exactly where the "Defund the Police" movement comes from and seems like an extremely good movement to pursue - shift that budget balance back in favor of specialized agencies that can better support social needs rather than forcing it all onto the police force. I really just wish it had gotten a better name since that title for the idea really divides people before they even open their minds.

The US actually spends a low amount of money on policing compared to the EU, where police kill fewer people. Further, the US also has a low number of police officers.

https://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2019/01/09/charts-poli...?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen...

The defund the police narrative isn’t based on any actual examination of US police spending, or general public spending. The key issues are instead police unions, lack of police training in the US, impunity for police abuses, etc

Cambridge NJ is often cited as a model of reform. But I am not sure they reduced spending. Instead they disbanded and reformed their police.

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defunding the police is generally unpopular where I live. My big city is growing at about 22% decade over decade and will likely surpass San Jose in population over the next 10 years. It is also the lowest density big city in the US. In order to support the growing population the police force must continue to grow as well. The fastest growing area of the city is also the least policed. This not result of negligence f…

What are the current home zoning vs planned updates/build for this area? San Jose has issue with single family units over dominating the area; the need for denser housing options hasn't abated, nor for the surrounding county and the greater bay area. That has to be planned with local Transpo options, and now you enter the quagmire of 4 transportation agencies systems in the South Bay at least across several modes.

The land area of my big city is massive, so there is no risk of running out of land. The problem with that is the increases of traffic and commute times. The area where I live is also absolutely dominated by single family residences. Developers have been building 500+ houses per year in the 5 mile radius of my house over the last decade and space for more single family residences in this location is running out. Developers are turning from single family dwellings towards apartment complexes. The current residents in the area are strongly opposed to the development of multi family units that will only further congest already unbearable traffic conditions. The city had to widen roads to accommodate the rapidly growing population but keeps putting it off.

Re: Mathematicians urge colleagues to boycott police work in wake of killings

#150
post #81

The last 40 years of austerity politics in the US have starved the beast [0] so greatly that the only remaining public infrastructure that functions as it's intended to is policing. For example, in the city of LA, 53% of the city's unrestricted general fund budget went to the LAPD. For everything else, there are parallel infrastructures for the haves - private education, private healthcare, privatized transit, etc. I…

There is no austerity. Here is state-and-local spending as a percentage of GDP from 1970 to present: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/courses-images-archive-re... And here is GDP in 2010 dollars: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?location... State and local governments went from spending 10% of $23,000 per person to 15% of $55,000 per person. Per-person state and local spending went up by a factor…

Why would you compare 2014 ridership to 2020 capital spending? The same charts you posted show a 40% increase in ridership with only a 20% increase in capital spending from 1982-2004.

Obviously the capital spending boost that is happening right will only be reflected in future ridership.

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