So is this the death of Mac gaming?
Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
621–630 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#622Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
> I’m not highly conversant with ARM linux, but in my mind I imagine it’s still largely a second class citizen
In terms of distros maybe yes. Most distros are targeted at laptops, desktops or servers, and few of those have ARM processors.
In terms of architectural support by the kernel and low-level infra, I see no reason for that to be true at all. Open source kernels and (at least lower-level) userspace have for decades paid more attention to compatibility with various hardware architectures than proprietary operating systems.
Of course you'll have fewer drivers for hardware associated with a particular architecture if there's less interest for the hardware, or if the hardware is less available in form factors that most developers are interested in. But that applies at least equally to non-open source platforms. If MS or Apple don't have a commercial interest in maintaining support for a particular platform (and they usually have only one or two in mind), nobody's going to do it.
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#623Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
Agree with you on some points, I’m really excited to see what’s next. I’m also betting on a new, and faster, MacBook maybe with a discounted price to incentive the migration?
About the virtualization, they will probably make it more efficient, resource wise? Some cloud providers are also offering ARM so...
Anxious to check the GPU performance too!
To add: Control Center on macOS and some other UI improvements hints for Mac w/ touchscreen?
Could we finally see a true BYOD, like Dex or using the improvements in Handoff?
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#624Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
“Apple’s own pro apps will be updated to support the company’s new silicon in macOS Big Sur, and the company is hoping developers will update their apps. “The vast majority of developers can get their apps up and running in a matter of days,” claims Craig Federighi, Apple’s senior vice president of software engineering. []...
Microsoft is working on Office updates for the new Mac silicon, and Word and Excel are already running natively on the new Mac processors, with PowerPoint even using Apple’s Metal tech for rendering. Apple has also been working with Adobe to get these pro apps up and running on these new chips.“
So the bottom line is: “your previous tools won’t work, will have to be rewritten, the burden is on the developers so we can rake in more cash”
Great, customer focused, and completely altruistic move back in the days when they killed Nvidia cards on high-performance rendering and simulation machines (and everywhere else).
So, Apple has performance libraries that are better than what Intel has to offer? So, cross-platform applications are now again “passe”?
I don’t use my iPhone for working. Why would I want iOS Apps on my computer? So I can install Apple Mail instead of Outlook
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#625Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
> So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. I'm predicting the opposite: you won't actually see any difference. Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gain…
Don’t iPads get significantly better battery life than similar casual workloads on a similar form factor Intel PC (like a MacBook Air)?
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#626Earlier quoted context omitted.
They already have a mobile chip that is as fast as an active-thermally cooled notebook chip.
"As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip.
Given that Amazon was able to get there, what makes you think Apple can't? I would struggle to believe that Annapurna Labs has any significant advantage over PA Semi given the track record PA has had since joining Apple, and the fact they had nearly a decade head-start.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15578/cloud-clash-amazon-grav...
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#627Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
> So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. I'm predicting the opposite: you won't actually see any difference. Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gain…
Seems to me to be very likely that Apple's graphic's silicon is much more performant and power efficient than Intel's integrated GPUs. CPUs idle most of the time seems to point to the advantage of a big.LITTLE style design which Apple have been using for iPad's etc for a while. So maybe not 30% but not negligible either.
They demoned lightroom and photoshop which are surely using meaningful CPU resources?
Agreed on the accelerators and the cost savings. All together probably a compelling case for switching.
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#628Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…
> So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. I'm predicting the opposite: you won't actually see any difference. Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gain…
> Once you look closely at power profiles on modern machines you'll see that most energy is going into display and GPU. CPUs mostly run idle. Even if you had a theoretical CPU using zero energy, most people are not going to get 30% battery life gains
This doesn't really seem to match my experience; at least on a 2015 MBP, the CPU is always consuming at least 0.5-1W, even with nothing running. If I open a webpage (or leave a site with a bunch of ads open), the CPU alone can easily start consuming 6-7 watts for a single core.
Apple claims 10 hours of battery life with a 70-something WH battery, which would indicate they expect total average power consumption to be around 7W; even the idle number is a decent percentage of that.
(Also, has anyone been able to measure the actual power consumption of the A-series CPUs?)
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
They already have a mobile chip that is as fast as an active-thermally cooled notebook chip.
"As fast" on specific curated use cases. Show me an Apple chip that beats any laptop on 7zip.
I don’t know about 7zip specifically, but the iPad Pro seems to beat even some MacBook Pros on some benchmarks.
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/05/12/ipad-pro-vs-macbook-air...
Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs
#630Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What happens to GPU? Having their own GPU for iMac and Mac Pro as well? Dual GPU options where Apple GPU for power efficiency? This feels like additional complexity. I think GPU scaling will be much harder than CPU, so whereas Apple can surpass Intel CPUs for all but the highest segments, putting together a standalone GPU will be hard and very interesting to see. For an entry-level GPU? No issues. But what about a…
And what happens if China marches into Taiwan? This is a plausible consideration that must be one of Apple's worst nightmares.
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