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Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

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Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#541

Does anybody know if it will still be possible to run Windows via BootCamp with the new apple processors? I use a 16" MBP and am a heavy BootCamp user (Windows 10).

https://www.zdnet.com/article/what-happens-to-boot-camp-if-a...

Seems like it's still possible if Microsoft gets on board. They've already made investments in getting Windows 10 to run on Qualcomm's ARM-based Snapdragon processor.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#542
post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was pretty much the same with PowerPC to Intel... Steve Jobs demoed OSX first. Then surprised everybody by saying, OSX had lived a double life in a secret building for many years (with photo), and that he had been running on an Intel Pentium 4 during the demo all morning. Nothing about performance. There was also a developer system back then; an Intel Pentium 4 in a PowerMac case. In a lot of ways, this is far mor…

It wasn't a surprise to anyone paying attention; NeXTSTEP had run on 68K/x86/Sparc/PA-RISC. Removing architecture support would have been remarkable. What's important, for those paying attention, is that Apple promoted PowerPC emulation with the first x86 Macs in OS X 10.4 and then removed it after 10.6. If you think Apple won't screw you again, well, go ahead, it's your money. [Dis]claimer: I have no long or short i…

The first Intel Macs were shipped in January 2006. Rosetta was dropped with the release of 10.7 in July 2011. Five years' support for a discontinued architecture seems rather generous.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#543
post #489
post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard from random sources that their GPUs are actually (relatively?) very powerful. Better sources/experience appreciated. "Apple claims the GPU in the iPad Pro is equivalent to an Xbox One S, although how they came to thise conclusion is difficult to say since we know so little about the underpinnings of the GPU." [1] [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro...

Game console GPUs are middle-end at best. They compensate by huge amount of hardware-specific optimizations since game developer can only target few models of hardware during 5 years lifecycle and devkits for hardware become available for game engine developers almost 2 years in advance. Apple sales for Mac are much smaller numbers compared to consoles, they change generations more quickly and amount of optimization…

That's less true than it once was. Both that the console APIs abstract way more of the systems than they once did so that console manufacturers can do perf refreshes halfway through the cycle, and that the whole point of Vulkan, et al. is to bring console like programming techniques to full computers since the GPU's MMU means that all you'll do is crash your own process anyway. That all adds up to them needing pretty nice hardware to keep up.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#544

Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…

> Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. Eh? This is a flimsy claim. AMD's performance/watt is extremely impressive right now. Apple is ahead of Intel for sure, but Intel isn't the only other player here. > So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. Alternately a Macbook Air type with 16 hours plus strong 4k per…

>Eh? This is a flimsy claim.

Anandtech would like to disagree with your word choice.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro...

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Logic isn't worth much without plugins… Rosetta 2 cross-compiles Intel binaries to ARM. Why would VST/AU plug-in binaries be an exception?

Will an ARM version of Logic support loading x86 plugins? Last time Rosetta was on a process by process basis, so you might have to make some unfortunate choices. Edit: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_silicon/abou... > The system prevents you from mixing arm64 code and x86_64 code in the same process. Rosetta translation applies to an entire process, including all code modules that the process loads d…

The question is if those plugins are modules (shared objects/dynamic libraries), or if they are used via some sort of IPC to an external process. (or even an XPC service)

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#546
post #404

I searched this thread for Thunderbolt and USB and nothing. The only way this can work if they implement USB 4. That's earlier than expected but not by much. USB 4 came out last September and everyone was guesstimating 18 months before the first systems ship with it. AMD shipping it with the Ryzen 4xxx laptop chips would've been a really big win but apparently it was too early. And now, as with Thunderbolt, it seems…

I have to wonder if Apple even needs to worry about TB on the Apple Silicon computers moving forward. Now that they're going down the path towards controlling everything in their computer hardware, I can see Apple creating a new proprietary high performance interface to replace TB and use USB for everything else that requires interoperability.

A lot of TB devices are reliant on PCIe over TB, so we will have to see if there is a way of exposing a PCI interface or equivalent.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens to GPU? Having their own GPU for iMac and Mac Pro as well? Dual GPU options where Apple GPU for power efficiency? This feels like additional complexity. I think GPU scaling will be much harder than CPU, so whereas Apple can surpass Intel CPUs for all but the highest segments, putting together a standalone GPU will be hard and very interesting to see. For an entry-level GPU? No issues. But what about a…

And what happens if China marches into Taiwan? This is a plausible consideration that must be one of Apple's worst nightmares.

Their whole supply chain is going to grind to a halt in that scenario even if TSMC's fabs were somewhere else. China would at minimum get sanctioned and there'd be component and raw material shortages for a while.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#549
iPhone 11 Pro Max's Geekbench multi-core score is ~3300. An 8-core MacBook Pro's Geekbench multi-core score is ~6700.

Now imagine the iPhone's CPU with double the cores and a giant heatsink + fan. I bet it would double maybe even triple a maxed out MacBook's score.

On the other hand, most software does not utilize ARM's NEON instructions (counterpart to x86 AVX). In my tests [1], H.265 software encoding was 3.5 slower on ARM than on x86 in terms of frames encoded per watt of energy consumed.

[1] https://quanticdev.com/articles/h265-encoding-on-arm-cpus

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. Eh? This is a flimsy claim. AMD's performance/watt is extremely impressive right now. Apple is ahead of Intel for sure, but Intel isn't the only other player here. > So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. Alternately a Macbook Air type with 16 hours plus strong 4k per…

I'd say that you should take a look at a comparison of the power efficiency of Apple's "little" core in the A13 to a stock ARM little core. >In the face-off against a Cortex-A55 implementation such as on the Snapdragon 855, the new Thunder cores represent a 2.5-3x performance lead while at the same time using less than half the energy. https://www.anandtech.com/show/14892/the-apple-iphone-11-pro... Apple has been hit…

Yeah, the other ARMs are anemic, but the AMD cores are knocking it out of the park recently.
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