Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#511

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:21 PM UTC

CharlesW wrote: post #478

tgv wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Logic Pro Logic isn't worth much without plugins, and I expect many smaller developers not to port to ARM, and there's nobody to fill the gap in the first years. If that is indeed the case, Apple will begin losing market share where it currently reigns. When there's no pro software, the mac will be just an iPad with a keyboard. It's quite a gamble. But I've been too pessimistic before.

> Logic isn't worth much without plugins… Rosetta 2 cross-compiles Intel binaries to ARM. Why would VST/AU plug-in binaries be an exception?

Performance, but that remains to be seen. VST performance can be absolutely crucial.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#512

Post by chipotle_coyote » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

deeblering4 wrote: post #300

Hopefully MacOS support for x86 won't just be 3-5 years from whenever the new ARM models come out. I have invested quite a bit into the Mac/Apple ecosystem. A big part of that reason was the longevity of the hardware, along with good resale values. I hope they do right by their existing Mac customers. As of right now I don't have a strong reason to switch away. I also hope that Apple does not blow this transition fro…

My suspicion is that new macOS releases will continue to support Intel-based Macs for at least three years after the last Intel-based Mac ships. New OS X releases only supported PowerPC for about two years after the last PowerPC Mac shipped, which is shorter than I'd expected, but Apple under Tim Cook has been a little less aggressive about ending support for old hardware, despite what people often seem to think. MacOS Big Sur supports hardware going back to 2013, and iOS 14 supports hardware back to 2015's iPhone 6s. (And iOS versions keep getting updates for a year after their replacements ship, while macOS versions tend to be updated for two.)

As for the quality, reply hazy, ask again later? The whole butterfly keyboard of laptops turned out to be a fiasco, and Apple's long-held tendency to push their industrial design right to the edge of thermal and material tolerances got kind of crazy-making in the last few years. Yet so far, I'm really liking my MacBook Air 2020, and the only thing I'd absolutely change about it if I were given a magic wand would be to add a third USB-C port on the right-hand side. I appreciated much of Jony Ive's design work, but I'm hopeful that with him gone, the drive to prioritize minimalism over functionality will be at least toned down.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#513

Post by geerlingguy » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #494

justinfrankel wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m not highly conversant with ARM linux, but in my mind I imagine it’s still largely a second class citizen IMO ARM linux is great, the real thing lacking is good hardware to run it.

Yeah, I tried out a Raspberry Pi 4 as a desktop replacement and pretty much everything is supported except for proprietary stuff like games.

Eh... that was not my experience: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2020/i-replaced-my-macbook...

(Unless you're speaking almost entirely of webapps, which mostly run fine even on the measly 1.5 GHz 4-core Pi ARM processor.)

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#514

Post by cma » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:22 PM UTC

sigjuice wrote: post #168

ogre_codes wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be so sure, there are a fair number of people who want a machine that will run x86 for various reasons. Windows support/ Linux support. Even considering how impressive x86 VMs looked in the demo, lots of people will prefer using intel silicon for guaranteed compatibility.

Did they say the Linux VMs in the demo were x86? They said "virtualization", which to me, implies ARM Linux.

Since arm has a more relaxed memory model they will likely never be able to emulate x86 with multithreading well.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#515

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

voqv wrote: post #445

paulpan wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens to GPU? Having their own GPU for iMac and Mac Pro as well? Dual GPU options where Apple GPU for power efficiency? This feels like additional complexity. I think GPU scaling will be much harder than CPU, so whereas Apple can surpass Intel CPUs for all but the highest segments, putting together a standalone GPU will be hard and very interesting to see. For an entry-level GPU? No issues. But what about a…

I heard from random sources that their GPUs are actually (relatively?) very powerful. Better sources/experience appreciated. "Apple claims the GPU in the iPad Pro is equivalent to an Xbox One S, although how they came to thise conclusion is difficult to say since we know so little about the underpinnings of the GPU." [1] [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro...

So it can compete with an old, lower-end APU using unreleased metrics. Great. Meanwhile, AMD is set to release much more powerful integrated graphics.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#516

Post by erichocean » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #479

greatpatton wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

200 billions may seem huge but at the same time the have 118 billions $ of debt as they use debt to pay dividend without moving money.

Without triggering tax obligations.

Every time stock is sold (whether Apple is the buyer or not), a "tax obligation" is triggered.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#517

Post by chipotle_coyote » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

benologist wrote: post #457

criddell wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They will lock down their PCs like the iPhone. Did they say that in the keynote?

At 1:34:04 of the presentation Fedherighi is opening up Xcode on the ARM Mac, and says, "we're using Xcode, like all our developers will" which might be construed as app store only.

Given that virtually everyone developing Swift or Objective-C applications for the Mac is using Xcode whether or not they're publishing to the App Store, that just seems to be a real leap to take, though.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#518

Post by dhosek » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

lrem wrote: post #492

ksec wrote: post #258

Apple ported many Pro Apps to ARM , especially their Logic Pro, Photoshop and they were showcasing Maya on ARM. That is about as Pro as it gets for Mac. That reads to me Apple isn't going to have Intel for some high end Pro machine. They intended to go all in with ARM. i.e There will be a Mac Pro with High TDP ARM Chip. I wonder what are the owner of Mac Pro feeling now having just spend a $5K+ Mac Pro with Intel. Qu…

Re 1: I believe iCloud is hosted on Google Cloud, isn't it?

Some services are in Google Cloud, some in AWS, some in Azure, plus Apple has eleven data centers of its own. I believe that Apple is working on bringing the pieces that have been offloaded to AWS/Azure/Google back in house.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#519

Post by CharlesW » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:23 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #511

CharlesW wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Logic isn't worth much without plugins… Rosetta 2 cross-compiles Intel binaries to ARM. Why would VST/AU plug-in binaries be an exception?

Performance, but that remains to be seen. VST performance can be absolutely crucial.

For sure! Hopefully we'll learn more specifics in another session.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#520

Post by valuearb » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 8:24 PM UTC

a1exus wrote: post #416

I was about to go get myself new MacBook Pro 16" w/ few upgrades (~4k) and now I'm not even sure anymore... does it make sense to have latest Intel powered computer or wait for ARM based version?

Unless you want to build and test ARM MacOS apps next year you should be fine. Your MBP should still work fine and in two years you should replace it anyways.