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Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

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Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#351
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 2016 US Election in particular showed us what happens when a platform takes a "hands off" approach - the platform is absolutely saturated with false, hateful information... And yet, presumably you were able to employ critical thinking, see past all this, and vote the "right" way despite an alleged deluge of hateful misinformation, as were 48%, a majority, of your fellow voters. Where is the evidence that the le…

This conversation will definitely be easier to follow if you get up to speed first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... Where is the evidence that the level of misinformation is any higher now than in the past, See the above overview for a start. History has shown that we didn't need to censor and oppress Communist thought in the US during the Cold War because of its alleged threat, and ev…

Generally, your points are well taken. The only quibble I have on a factual basis is here:

> 3. "Censorship" is when a person is not allowed to express their views. That is not what is being proposed here. This is about refusing to hand a megaphone to bad actors.

Censorship, historically, was preventing objectionable books from being published. In many forms of censorship, there was nothing theoretically preventing an author of objectionable books from handwriting them and distributing them privately, so long as they didn't draw too much attention to themselves. The historical censors could have made an identical argument to yours: they were merely depriving the objectionable view of a "megaphone" (the publisher), not eliminating the view entirely.

But given what you have asserted above about the importance of breadth of reach for views, it would seem to me that preventing a view from being widely disseminated in any practical way to people who would otherwise freely choose to read or hear the view is the very essence of censorship.

But more broadly, my real problem with your viewpoint is perfectly exemplified here:

> I also have an IQ in the 90-99th percentile range...

> Relying upon the populace to suddenly become savvy is not realistic.

Firstly, with deep respect, this is incredibly arrogant. But nevertheless, you may be right about this, that only the enlightened and educated few can discern truth from falsity and make informed choices.

But if you are right, don't you see that this undermines the bedrock assumptions and principles of democracy? The masses must be led, and shown the "right" information and protected from the "wrong" information? By whom? And what is to prevent those elite and enlightened few from acting in their own interests rather than those of the ignorant mob?

I see within your argument, which may not be factually wrong, a powerful argument in favor of authoritarianism and oligarchy. Any argument that leads to such conclusions is worth a fair amount of scrutiny, no?

Even if it is a fiction that all voters are equally intelligent and informed, sometimes we have found that certain fictions are very important prerequisites for creating a desirable society. For example, the fiction that "all men are created equal". They aren't. But we use that fiction in very important ways to create a more just and equal society. Another is the fiction of free will. Free will does not exist. But still, we treat people as if they had free will, because the alternative is disempowering and decouples people from any responsibility for their actions.

So, I think "the demos makes more-or-less informed choices that are more-or-less in its own self-interest" is another of those necessary fictions, necessary to prevent us from regressing to feudalism or worse.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#352
post #147

This was announced back in February.... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8044337/Redd...

Gizmodo is cited, and gives better info:

https://gizmodo.com/reddit-will-start-to-punish-users-for-up...

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#353
Gizmodo addressed this in February, though just as Covid-19 news coverage began overwhelming everything:

Yesterday, Reddit CEO Steve Huffman (or “Spez,” as Redditors affectionately know him) published the platform’s annual transparency report, highlighting how the platform took down more than 200,000 pieces of offending content over 2019, along with nearly 56,000 accounts and nearly 22,000 subreddits—the site’s communities, most of which are moderated by volunteer users. He also flagged a “company update” regarding the way Reddit thinks about “quarantined” communities...

https://gizmodo.com/reddit-will-start-to-punish-users-for-up...

That policy, in a Reddit post by Huffman:

When we expanded our quarantine policy, we created an appeals process for sanctioned communities. One of the goals was to “force subscribers to reconsider their behavior and incentivize moderators to make changes.” While the policy attempted to hold moderators more accountable for enforcing healthier rules and norms, it didn’t address the role that each member plays in the health of their community.

Today, we’re making an update to address this gap: Users who consistently upvote policy-breaking content within quarantined communities will receive automated warnings, followed by further consequences like a temporary or permanent suspension. We hope this will encourage healthier behavior across these communities.

https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/f8y9nx/sprin...

According to that statement, bans (apparently temporary) are for voting only in already quarantined subreddits.

WatchRedditDie's discussion is not especially nuanced, considered, or balanced.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#354
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the core of a lot of these issues is the distinction between universal findings which almost always are in favour of "progressive" worldviews and anecdotes which aren't necessarily. The example of trans people detransitioning is a good one here - the general truth that transgender people are very happy with their decision to do so (regardless of what that may mean for them) conflicts with individuals and thei…

[deleted]

I'm curious, can you point me towards some examples of the data you suggest? I personally haven't seen anything of the kind, although perhaps newer data may suggest slightly lower rates of overall satisfaction given that increasing awareness of something to an otherwise unaware population is always going to increase false negatives. Still, the figures I see are always approximately in the 95%+ positive range.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#355
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also how to deal with communities that should absolutely not be spilling over into the rest of Reddit. Reddit, I think rightfully, quarantines a lot of ED related subreddits.

What does ED stand for?

Eating disorder, as noted. "Pro-Ana" and "thinspiration are terms that appear, as examples.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro-ana

Several such subreddits are (IMO rightfully) banned or quarantined.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#356

I don't really get reddit's efforts to clean their site. They sometimes come up with measures like this, while routinely ignoring the development of horrible communities that they're aware of (since some users take any possible opportunity to mention them to the admins and are met with silence or half measures). They even came up with the concept of quarantined subreddits. I honestly can't think of a single honest re…

The bans, as announced in Reddit's annual Transparency Report this past February, apply specifically to actions in quarantined subreddits:

Users who consistently upvote policy-breaking content within quarantined communities will receive automated warnings, followed by further consequences like a temporary or permanent suspension. We hope this will encourage healthier behavior across these communities.

https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/f8y9nx/sprin...

Quarantines offer greater flexibility in monitoring and management, with fair warning to members.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The missing component of your thought process is who, exactly, deems subreddits not worthy of existence. Many people view pornography as an extremely damaging problem and addiction, would you want all 18+ subreddits removes because somebody “can’t think of a single honest reason for them existing”?

Ten years ago I would have said, "No censorship. Turn on the firehose of information, and let me choose what's 'acceptable' and what's not." No more. That presumes some sort of equal playing field and a meritocracy of ideas. That's clearly not the case. The reality is that good-faith content takes more effort than bad-faith content. The 2016 US Election in particular showed us what happens when a platform takes a "ha…

"the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution, is one of those pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed forever, it may be thrown back for centuries."

– John Stuart Mill, On Liberty (https://www.utilitarianism.com/ol/two.html)

Mill seems to agree with you.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#358
post #108

Is there any evidence this is real? The image specifies /r/reddit.com, which was discontinued about a decade ago. Obviously this practice is/would be awful. But it's really surprising and the image seems a little fishy.

From 24 February 2020:

"Reddit Will Start to Punish Users for Upvotes as It Eyes Ad Cash"

https://gizmodo.com/reddit-will-start-to-punish-users-for-up...

"Spring forward… into Reddit’s 2019 transparency report"

Users who consistently upvote policy-breaking content within quarantined communities will receive automated warnings, followed by further consequences like a temporary or permanent suspension. We hope this will encourage healthier behavior across these communities.

https://old.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/f8y9nx/sprin...

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#359
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having a real name policy isn't the same as being anonymous. Back in the day my irc nick and my WoW username were far more well known than I, the human, will ever be.

Anonymous is probably the wrong term, but I'm not sure there's a better one. I think the point is that there's a distinct disconnect between your profile on Reddit (and any other sites you share the username with) and your physical person, at least up until the point where you (ideally) make the connection public yourself if desired. It's anonymous insofar as the "person" on reddit is not easily attributable to the p…

> Anonymous is probably the wrong term, but I'm not sure there's a better one.

There is one. It was used a couple comments up.

Pseudonymous. It's an actual word, not just made up.

Re: Reddit started banning accounts that voted for content “against their policies”

#360
post #305
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having a real name policy isn't the same as being anonymous. Back in the day my irc nick and my WoW username were far more well known than I, the human, will ever be.

You can make a new reddit account in 20 seconds if you don't want people to tie the comment you're about to make to your main account which is already a step removed from you. If you want Throwaway8675309 to develop a reputation, that's an option you have, not a requirement.

No surprise, but Throwaway8675309 actually exists on reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/user/Throwaway8675309

Also no surprise, the account was active for only ~5 days.

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