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Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

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Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#441

Post by abhorrence »

kevindong wrote: post #430

The terms of receiving a transition device are now available [0]. As expected, receivers of the device essentially sign away all rights to show/benchmark the device. > Section 2.2 No Other Permitted Uses > ... You agree that neither You nor Your Authorized Developers will: > ... > (d) display, demonstrate, video, photograph, make any drawings or renderings of, or take any images or measurements of or run any benchmar…

This is unsurprising. Both because it's Apple, but also because the kits are meant to enable testing on real hardware, not to be actual hardware.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#442

Post by Yhippa »

joakleaf wrote: post #296
Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

It was pretty much the same with PowerPC to Intel... Steve Jobs demoed OSX first. Then surprised everybody by saying, OSX had lived a double life in a secret building for many years (with photo), and that he had been running on an Intel Pentium 4 during the demo all morning. Nothing about performance. There was also a developer system back then; an Intel Pentium 4 in a PowerMac case. In a lot of ways, this is far mor…

Your "buts" are dead-on. Everything felt so distant and unauthentic. They should require their execs and presenters to not read from somewhere else and do it live.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#443

Post by notriddle »

foepys wrote: post #299

People in here are so excited but I think that Apple will take this as an opportunity to make installing of custom programs even harder. The App Store might eventually be the only way to reliably install software and Homebrew could become a thing of the past.

Maybe, but I honestly kind of doubt it. The Mac specifically serves as the development platform for iOS, so you obviously need to be able to install a compiler toolchain at least for that.

But developing for iOS also requires a bunch more than just developing for iOS. Mobile apps often require servers, and Apple doesn't have a server product any more, so it's in Apple's best interest to allow stuff like Docker (which, you'll remember, they specifically demoed).

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#444

Post by 95014_refugee »

jason0597 wrote: post #388

I'm personally much more worried about the power Apple will gain from switching their hardware to ARM. This gives them such immense power, allowing them to create an even stronger walled garden environment. For all we know they could force the system to only run Mac OS? Is this goodbye to choosing your own operating system now? Are the only people Apple cares about web and app developers? Are kernel engineers forgott…

Nothing here prevents you from doing this in a VM.

The problem with being able to tinker at will with a consumer system is that you have no way of choosing who is tinkering with your system.

If as a vendor you take the security and privacy of your customers' information seriously, you cannot deliver an "open" and "tinkerable" system. The two are fundamentally at odds.

This has been sufficiently obvious for long enough now that anyone still complaining about how they can't run their own kernel on their desktop is almost certainly a surveillance-state troll.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#445

Post by voqv »

paulpan wrote: post #407
ksec wrote: post #258

Apple ported many Pro Apps to ARM , especially their Logic Pro, Photoshop and they were showcasing Maya on ARM. That is about as Pro as it gets for Mac. That reads to me Apple isn't going to have Intel for some high end Pro machine. They intended to go all in with ARM. i.e There will be a Mac Pro with High TDP ARM Chip. I wonder what are the owner of Mac Pro feeling now having just spend a $5K+ Mac Pro with Intel. Qu…

> What happens to GPU? Having their own GPU for iMac and Mac Pro as well? Dual GPU options where Apple GPU for power efficiency? This feels like additional complexity. I think GPU scaling will be much harder than CPU, so whereas Apple can surpass Intel CPUs for all but the highest segments, putting together a standalone GPU will be hard and very interesting to see. For an entry-level GPU? No issues. But what about a…

I heard from random sources that their GPUs are actually (relatively?) very powerful. Better sources/experience appreciated.

"Apple claims the GPU in the iPad Pro is equivalent to an Xbox One S, although how they came to thise conclusion is difficult to say since we know so little about the underpinnings of the GPU." [1]

[1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/13661/the-2018-apple-ipad-pro...

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#447

Post by Wowfunhappy »

m12k wrote: post #395
wtallis wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time around, the dev kits had Pentium 4 processors but the Intel Macs that launched used Core and Core 2 processors— a totally different microarchitecture with drastically different performance and power characteristics. It's a pretty safe bet that the first ARM Macs will be using SoCs that are at least a generational improvement over the A12Z. The higher-power Macs that will probably be released toward the end…

I'm honestly pretty excited to see what Apple can deliver. The A12Z is passively cooled, yet is on par with the 10th gen i5 in the new 13 inch MBP: https://browser.geekbench.com/macs/macbook-pro-13-inch-mid-2... Just imagine what they can do with active cooling!

I'm not disagreeing per se, but "on par" is really hard to say for sure, since you're benchmarking across CPU architectures.

And, one of the comparison points can only ever be run on a highly locked down black box of an OS.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#448

Post by MarcScott »

This maybe a naïve question, so feel free to educate me.

If more software developers now need to target ARM architecture, does that mean that it will be easier to port software to other hardware, such as the Raspberry Pi, or is it not that simple?

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#449

Post by drawfloat »

originalvichy wrote: post #291
valuearb wrote: post #32

Docker and Linux virtualization. Fat binaries to make it easy to update Mac apps. iPhone and iPad apps. Rosetta to run Intel apps that aren’t updated. Apple is gonna knock this out if the park.

I wonder what this will do to Electron. If the iOS apps are really 1:1 on macOS, then the need to maintain an electron app will probably diminish. As long as they both support the same OS APIs I can see devs that can learn a new language (Swift) ditch Electron.

But if you're developing with Electron, the purpose is typically cross platform desktop support. This won't change that?

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#450

Post by ascendantlogic »

kllrnohj wrote: post #325
vessenes wrote: post #305

Commenters here seem dubious. I’ll take the contra-position. This feels to me like it’s going to be great; a big win for consumers and developers. Current A12z chips are highly performant; Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. I presume their consumer hardware will launch with an A13Z, or maybe an A14 type chip. Apple has consistently shipped new chip designs on time; I…

> Apple is roughly one chip cycle ahead on perfomance/watt from any other manufacturer. Eh? This is a flimsy claim. AMD's performance/watt is extremely impressive right now. Apple is ahead of Intel for sure, but Intel isn't the only other player here. > So, I’m predicting an MBP 13 - 16 range with an extra three hours of battery life+, and 20-30% faster. Alternately a Macbook Air type with 16 hours plus strong 4k per…

AMD is small though. I have no data to back up my gut but anecdotally I feel like they don't have the manufacturing capacity to keep up with Apple's demands right now.
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