Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#281

Post by snowwrestler » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:19 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #178

snowwrestler wrote: post #66

My comment from a week ago: "What would keep Apple from shipping machines with both ARM and Intel CPUs in them? The ARM CPU would run the OS and decide when to ship jobs over to the Intel CPU. I can’t imagine that the home-grown ARM CPU would add much to the total price of the computer." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23530084

This level of asymmetric processing is very difficult to achieve, at nearly every possible level, from part sourcing, through hardware design, firmware, software to user experience.

Which was why I thought Apple might blow everyone away by doing it. But I was obviously wrong.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#282

Post by taylodl » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

It's not a product release - it's an announcement of direction for the Mac product line and the Mac OS platform. Once they have hardware with ARM processors for purchase they'll be speaking to the processor specs and how much better they are at power management.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#283

Post by EtienneK » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

awill wrote: post #86

cm0000cm wrote: post #29

I was seriously considering upgrading my 2012 MacBook to the new 16" model soon, but now I wonder what kind of longevity or support I can expect from that hardware...

I just got a 16" MBP... Still, the waiting game sucks too. Apple said their first Arm mac will come out at the end of the year, but that could well be a very low end Mac mini, or Macbook Air. It's unknown when the pro line will come out.

There was an article posted here on HN yesterday speculating that the first ARM Mac will be a new 13” MacBook Pro.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#284

Post by mtgx » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

> The biggest addition this move to ARM-powered chips brings is the ability for iOS and iPad apps to run natively in macOS in the future. “Most apps will just work,” says Apple, meaning you’ll be able to run native macOS apps alongside native iOS apps side-by-side for the first time.

I've been saying for years that this was Chrome OS's biggest advantage - that it was CPU-agnostic, therefore it could use ARM CPUS much more easily than Windows or macOS, and as such it could run Android apps on ARM chips natively.

But no, Google decided that it was better to go 99% Intel on all Chromebooks, including their own, because former Intel CEO Otellini was on their board and maybe they got a couple of sweet deals on the data center deals, too, like when they were first to get Skylake.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#285

Post by cbmuser » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

bredren wrote: post #158

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

It wasn't just lack of performance numbers, there were no actual products announced. They would have had to tip their hand on a lot of info that is not helpful to customers or their ability to keep selling Intel stuff. One big question though will be how this devkit benchmarks against the current maxed Intel mac mini. I'm curious if GPU performance beats the current BlackMagic eGPU. (rx 580)

> there were no actual products announced.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they also didn't announce any actual hardware when they introduced Intel Macs.

Interestingly, for the PowerPC->Intel transition, they also had an Developer Transition Kit: https://www.macstories.net/stories/this-is-not-a-product-the...

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#286

Post by JohnBooty » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

ogre_codes wrote: post #43

jccalhoun wrote: post #19

Tim Cook just said they have new intel macs in the pipeline. Those will go over like a lead balloon.

I wouldn't be so sure, there are a fair number of people who want a machine that will run x86 for various reasons. Windows support/ Linux support. Even considering how impressive x86 VMs looked in the demo, lots of people will prefer using intel silicon for guaranteed compatibility.

I could see the "final Intel Macs" having a value to folks; somewhat similar to the 2015 Macbook Pros which many considered the "last good Macbooks" before Apple fumbled things with the 2016-onward Macs and their gimpy keyboards.

In this case, I don't think the first ARM Macs will have undesirable hardware ala the first few years of Touchbar Macs, but there will be some straggler software whose ARM ports will be delayed or will never happen. For those who depend upon that software, the final Intel Macs will be invaluable.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#287

Post by KMnO4 » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

john_alan wrote: post #250

I wonder if Big Sur on Apple Silicon is still Unix based, i.e. with all the Unix underpinnings and terminal access?

It should be. I bet it will be based on the same Darwin (ie BSD Unix) kernel that the iPad Pro uses.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#288

Post by ogre_codes » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #174

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

I don't think they even used the term "ARM" at any point. They're calling it "Apple's silicon," and they acknowledged it's the same as what iPhone and iPad use. But I thought it was interesting how they seemed to avoid the term. It's probably just a matter of avoiding getting too "techy" and marketing.

I don't know that Apple ever really talks the fact that their chips are based on ARM during this kind of event.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#289

Post by snazz » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #174

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

I don't think they even used the term "ARM" at any point. They're calling it "Apple's silicon," and they acknowledged it's the same as what iPhone and iPad use. But I thought it was interesting how they seemed to avoid the term. It's probably just a matter of avoiding getting too "techy" and marketing.

The first guy in the "lab" scene (Johny maybe?) mentioned plenty of other "techy" terms. I think that they want to distance themselves from other ARM manufacturers and put the focus on Apple's advantages over Qualcomm and others.

Re: Apple announces it will switch to its own processors for future Macs

#290

Post by nojito » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #102

I'm surprised we didn't get any performance numbers. Either raw power or at least power efficiency and projected battery life improvements. Seeing as this is a major reason for the transition (according to them), it feels very weird. They're shipping a 'Development Transition Kit' Mac mini with an A12Z this week, so it's not like the numbers are going to stay private for a long time. Even if there's an NDA, someone's…

A12Z isn't a consumer chip for macOS. That's why you aren't going to get benchmarks from Apple.

They are also being very very coy with what they have under their sleeves because of small of an upgrade A13 was over A12.

Same thing happened during the intel transition. The first consumer chips were dual cores, but the DTK was Pentium 4s