Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#181

Post by ghaff » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

staysaasy wrote: post #164

Remote work is such a fascinating leadership challenge given how dogmatic both sides have become. The tone of the debate is verging on a religious argument (on both sides), but it's all centered on work-related topics which typically don't engender such extreme responses.

A lot of individuals have very strong preferences. And those who want to go back to how things were also realize that, if many companies shift to a more patchwork employees can continue to WFH if they're able to and want to, many offices won't ever go back to the way they were.

In addition, many feel (probably with some justification) that there's a real opportunity at the moment to influence policies that favor their personal preferences. And you won't influence if you don't take a strong stand.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#182

Post by nsilvestri » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

jkaptur wrote: post #173

Ask HN: do you make any distinction between "working from home" and "working from home during a pandemic"? I see a lot of people arguing that WFH is the new normal, citing long reopening timelines, their own preferences, increased productivity, Twitter's policy change, etc. But just a few years ago, IBM and Yahoo radically curtailed their WFH policies, and they made (what seemed to me to be) pretty credible arguments…

Although regular WFH and pandemic WFH are functionally the same, being forced to work remote has a different effect on me than elective remote work. As someone who prefers working in the office, mandatory indefinite WFH is much more...mentally taxing(?) than when I choose to do it.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#183

Post by conanbatt » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:58 PM UTC

redisman wrote: post #152

conanbatt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked remotely most my life but as a new parent...I really want an office.

You mean a dedicated office at home or you want to get out of the house? For me it's given me a much greater appreciation for working from home as I can be with the kid all day rather than outsource that for the majority of her waking hours.

If you are with the kid you are not working

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#184

Post by kanox » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 6:59 PM UTC

jkaptur wrote: post #173

Ask HN: do you make any distinction between "working from home" and "working from home during a pandemic"? I see a lot of people arguing that WFH is the new normal, citing long reopening timelines, their own preferences, increased productivity, Twitter's policy change, etc. But just a few years ago, IBM and Yahoo radically curtailed their WFH policies, and they made (what seemed to me to be) pretty credible arguments…

Personally I can't wait for this to come back to normal: being inside an office for 9 hours every day helps me be productive and focus.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#185

Post by g-garron » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, my employer has said zero remote work once the state transitions into the next phase. They want to be "fair" to everyone, including those who have positions that cannot be performed remotely. So, you have a co-morbidity? Nope. You have no childcare suddenly? Nope. It's startling how stuck in the 1980's some people are. Just absolutely astonishing.

Some people just do not understand that employees are more productive if they are comfortable. They think employees need an eye behind its back in order to produce. And if it is that way, it is their fault, they have chosen bad when hiring.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#186

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:00 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #54

flak48 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies have been reimbursing home internet and electricity bills since March. Mine even paid for an chair, desk, monitor and lamp of my choosing for my home office. I hope this becomes the norm if remote becomes mainstream

This is probably not the norm. I have a friend that works in a call center, and they've been working remotely during the pandemic. Her company won't pay for anything; she uses her personal laptop, personal consumer-grade Internet connection, etc. The consumer ISP doesn't provide their stated upload and download ever, and the ISP charged her $100 to come out and investigate the issue without fixing it. (You run a spee…

> You run a speedtest to their speedtest node, and it doesn't live up to what is advertised. How can the ISP turn around and charge the customer for telling them that!?

Easy, the CPE equipment is garbage or placed in a shitty location. I'm a nerd, but my ancient wifi setup started to struggle with the entire family working and schooling all day. I upgraded to a Ubiquiti solution with multiple antennas and life is good.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#187

Post by elliekelly » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:01 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, my employer has said zero remote work once the state transitions into the next phase. They want to be "fair" to everyone, including those who have positions that cannot be performed remotely. So, you have a co-morbidity? Nope. You have no childcare suddenly? Nope. It's startling how stuck in the 1980's some people are. Just absolutely astonishing.

If someone’s job can be performed from home and they’re at higher risk due to a co-morbidity it would very likely be a reasonable accommodation under the ADA to have them work from home.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#188

Post by Klinky » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:02 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #154

ikiris wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The party in power runs on a slogon of "government is never the solution, I'll prove it" and people act surprised that this is the result.

I liked Obama and everything, but I don't think the federal government was meaningfully more capable of administering a significant welfare program then than it is now. As much as we like to pretend that Obamacare was a great success, I don't get the feeling that it dramatically improved circumstances on balance (premiums went up across the board but coverage for preexisting conditions is guaranteed so that's somethi…

Obamacare was huge for pre-existing conditions and the marketplace, you actually had options now, instead of zero. Also Obamacare was watered down to appease Republican interests at the time. There was no interest in building bridges during it's building, Republicans were laying out the dynamite, and spent a hell of a lot of wasted effort after Trump took office trying to trigger that dynamite.

It is hard to meet in they middle when both sides are extremely far apart, and each side has factions that are even further apart than ever before.

Really we need more than two parties dictating the agenda. It is getting harder for the far left to even want deal with Democrats, much less Republicans. The same is happening with the far/alt right.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#189

Post by ThisIsTheWay » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:05 PM UTC

g-garron wrote: post #185

Loughla wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, my employer has said zero remote work once the state transitions into the next phase. They want to be "fair" to everyone, including those who have positions that cannot be performed remotely. So, you have a co-morbidity? Nope. You have no childcare suddenly? Nope. It's startling how stuck in the 1980's some people are. Just absolutely astonishing.

Some people just do not understand that employees are more productive if they are comfortable. They think employees need an eye behind its back in order to produce. And if it is that way, it is their fault, they have chosen bad when hiring.

> Some people just do not understand that employees are more productive if they are comfortable.

I'd wager most people understand it. Like you pointed out, it's an issue with the perception of lost control, and people are willing to trade productivity for power.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#190

Post by triceratops » Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:06 PM UTC

jkaptur wrote: post #173

Ask HN: do you make any distinction between "working from home" and "working from home during a pandemic"? I see a lot of people arguing that WFH is the new normal, citing long reopening timelines, their own preferences, increased productivity, Twitter's policy change, etc. But just a few years ago, IBM and Yahoo radically curtailed their WFH policies, and they made (what seemed to me to be) pretty credible arguments…

> policies were being abused (WFH employees not getting on VPN for days at a time, for example).

And they were still putting in enough work to not get fired? Maybe those jobs were really easy then, and could have been combined into fewer roles. Or management wasn't keeping track of how much work there was to go around, and hadn't maxed out their workers' capacity. Either way, it seems like bad management.