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Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

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Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#111

Post by adjkant »

ryanSrich wrote: post #104
adjkant wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The things you describe are far from the charged language you're using, and also much of your description may not apply at all to the post you responded to. How does someone quitting their job because their work is playing a global pandemic step by step help any of the things you listed? This approach is a very logical decision and honestly complaining this loudly about that step is incredibly privileged in a time wh…

> This approach is a very logical decision and honestly complaining this loudly about that step is incredibly privileged in a time where many are facing layoffs and pay cuts. I addressed the privilege in my post. It's in bad faith to bring it up as if I didn't, also gaslighting. > How does someone quitting their job because their work is playing a global pandemic step by step help any of the things you listed? Playin…

> I addressed the privilege in my post. It's in bad faith to bring it up as if I didn't, also gaslighting.

You addressed it in respect to the ability to quit. I'm talking in terms of the standard you are setting and projecting onto all companies. I don't see how that's in bad faith or gaslighting. I don't think you know what that term means based on your use.

> For jobs that can be done remote

This might be the key issue - it sounds like you are massively undervaluing aspects of non-remote work that are beneficial to both workers and companies.

> Every company that forces employees into an office has gross office politics.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I'm all for more remote companies existing, but offices are not inherently corrupt.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#112

Post by mattwad »

Loughla wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, my employer has said zero remote work once the state transitions into the next phase. They want to be "fair" to everyone, including those who have positions that cannot be performed remotely. So, you have a co-morbidity? Nope. You have no childcare suddenly? Nope. It's startling how stuck in the 1980's some people are. Just absolutely astonishing.

The thing is, having worked remotely for a year... the people working remote are the ones that become at a disadvantage. Because people in office may forget to include them in calls or conversations.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#113

Post by spyspy »

Krasnol wrote: post #29
elicash wrote: post #19

Here's a photo of the newsroom so you can get a sense of the degree to which they work in proximity: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/12/18/opinion/sunday/18...

What a nightmare. Now imagine half of them being on the phone....terrible.

It's surprisingly quiet actually. It's not a trading floor with people screaming at each other.

Source: am a former NYT and worked in that exact room.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#114

Post by fzeroracer »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #106
claudeganon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if we had a functioning welfare state, the government would be encouraged to respond to a pandemic appropriately so as not to overwhelm its resources. Scandinavia seems to be doing better than the US at the moment. As it stands, it looks like the US is using its lack of a social floor to force people back to work under unsafe conditions, regardless of whether that’s rational or necessary, which will result in m…

This is true in the same way that if a homeless person had a million dollars he might not be homeless. The trick is how to get a functioning welfare state when your government is fundamentally broken. Note that the even the CDC failed spectacularly at its primary job; its literal raison d'etre. You can criticize that the CDC lacked funding, but that is wrong[^1] and it misses the point: not being able to properly fun…

> You can criticize that the CDC lacked funding, but that is wrong[^1] and it misses the point: not being able to properly fund our agencies is itself evidence (if not proof) of government incompetence.

I'm not sure how this works out, considering we have one party whose entire stated goal is to defund the government and reduce government size. They are also the ones pulling the levers right now and have admitted over and over again to slash-and-burn styles of governing. Our government is fundamentally broken because we elect people who break the government and then say it's broken, so we need less of it.

> Similarly, we should have also had plans for scaling out testing capability. We also shouldn't have rolled our own (fallible, time consuming) tests if we were cash strapped--we should have used the WHO tests. Planning is relatively cheap and by all appearances the CDC didn't do it at all.

We had a pandemic response team and the previous admin did make plans in case of a future pandemic. Our current one decided to toss most of that out and downsize said response team. Additionally the US Government was literally seizing masks and undermining the CDC every step of the way.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#115

Post by pbhjpbhj »

kyawzazaw wrote: post #47
machinehermit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on how much you like being social too. Not interacting with people, not having a place to go, just being in the house all day is absolutely terrible for my long term well being. If my place goes full remote I would have to consider renting an office.

> Not interacting with people, not having a place to go, just being in the house all day is absolutely terrible for my long term well being. Could this just be due to a pandemic? I think in normal WFH, what you described wouldn't be much of a problem.

I'm like the parent commenter in feeling office work helps me:

For me, I don't do social very well, but I still need to interact with people, I get on well with people (AFAICT) but seldom does anyone ever really want to spend leisure time with me. Work forces me to have social interactions that help my "sanity" (by which I mean: a vague hand-wavey notion of mental health).

I'm "happy" day-to-day with hiding away at home; but I tend to spiral downwards as I don't get much social interaction outside of work. Banter is good medicine.

For me this is a midlife thing.

YMMV, and the parent is probably quite different, but that's my recent experience.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#116

Post by heelix »

jrockway wrote: post #54
flak48 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies have been reimbursing home internet and electricity bills since March. Mine even paid for an chair, desk, monitor and lamp of my choosing for my home office. I hope this becomes the norm if remote becomes mainstream

This is probably not the norm. I have a friend that works in a call center, and they've been working remotely during the pandemic. Her company won't pay for anything; she uses her personal laptop, personal consumer-grade Internet connection, etc. The consumer ISP doesn't provide their stated upload and download ever, and the ISP charged her $100 to come out and investigate the issue without fixing it. (You run a spee…

Commercial internet does not cost a lot of money. I do a cable modem and while my speeds are a bit slower than the residential option (for the same money) I don't have bandwidth caps or 'talk to the hand' when an issue happens. Night and day between the two experiences. Worth looking into.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#117

Post by mFixman »

jmalicki wrote: post #25
elicash wrote: post #19

Here's a photo of the newsroom so you can get a sense of the degree to which they work in proximity: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/12/18/opinion/sunday/18...

So unlike a modern tech company, they sit farther apart and at least have barriers between their desks?

Most modern tech companies have a single height-adjustable desk per person, so most of the time your desk will be slightly higher or lower than your neighbour's.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#118

Post by TuringNYC »

mattwad wrote: post #112
Loughla wrote: post #5

Meanwhile, my employer has said zero remote work once the state transitions into the next phase. They want to be "fair" to everyone, including those who have positions that cannot be performed remotely. So, you have a co-morbidity? Nope. You have no childcare suddenly? Nope. It's startling how stuck in the 1980's some people are. Just absolutely astonishing.

The thing is, having worked remotely for a year... the people working remote are the ones that become at a disadvantage. Because people in office may forget to include them in calls or conversations.

or...they may "forget" to include them in calls or conversations

As much as I think WFH will be a huge win for workers, and the whole country (to some extent, ex SF/SV), I am skeptical it would work unless orgs are completely remote. In hybrid setups, I could see WFH workers end up getting edged out -- it has never worked any other way from what i've seen in the past.

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#119

Post by spyspy »

elicash wrote: post #19

Here's a photo of the newsroom so you can get a sense of the degree to which they work in proximity: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2016/12/18/opinion/sunday/18...

That's actually pretty outdated. The newsroom (and all other floors at 620 8th Ave) have gotten standing desks that are slightly wider apart.

Source: used to work in that newsroom

Re: Most employees of NYT won’t be required back in physical offices until 2021

#120

Post by ryanSrich »

adjkant wrote: post #111
ryanSrich wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This approach is a very logical decision and honestly complaining this loudly about that step is incredibly privileged in a time where many are facing layoffs and pay cuts. I addressed the privilege in my post. It's in bad faith to bring it up as if I didn't, also gaslighting. > How does someone quitting their job because their work is playing a global pandemic step by step help any of the things you listed? Playin…

> I addressed the privilege in my post. It's in bad faith to bring it up as if I didn't, also gaslighting. You addressed it in respect to the ability to quit. I'm talking in terms of the standard you are setting and projecting onto all companies. I don't see how that's in bad faith or gaslighting. I don't think you know what that term means based on your use. > For jobs that can be done remote This might be the key i…

> I don't think you know what that term means based on your use.

You made me second guess if I did in fact address the issue. I did.

> it sounds like you are massively undervaluing aspects of non-remote work that are beneficial to both workers and companies.

You're right. I am undervaluing it. Being in person has no inherent benefits over being remote. Maybe 20 years ago, but the internet has fixed those issues. Low-fidelity remote work is a cultural issue. Not a technology issue. Companies refuse to do remote work correctly so they can continue archaic co-located work.

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