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Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

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Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#41

Post by detritus »

ubermonkey wrote: post #16
mdrachuk wrote: post #2

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?

I still occasionally play Total Annihilation (97) and, somewhat more amusingly, Populous II (91) via an Amiga emulator.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#42

Post by clarry »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #20
eyerony wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it wasn’t until my sixth or seventh play through that I finally felt like I’d found everything in that game. There’s just so much in it, and it’s content to let you miss most of it if you want. IIRC there are a three or so main routes through that first level (in the front, through the tunnel, climb the side), plus a couple optional side-areas.

It was this conversation [0] that convinced me the game was something special (albeit poorly aged today!) Also in Hong Kong (and a spoiler) was this way of completing an objective that I didn't realize was possible until I saw it on YouTube [1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKF0IYwhrjk [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc

In that second video, he jumps to Jock's apartment. That one took me years to discover. Same for the collapsed tunnel accessible via the HK canals.. wow, that one is so well hidden.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#44

Post by allenu »

What I think of when I think of Deus Ex was back then it was receiving accolades and a year or two after it came out I decided to give it a try. I saw they had a really inexpensive version out that was called Deus Ex: Special Limited Edition, for probably $10 or so. After playing it a bit I realized it literally was a “limited edition” in that it was just a demo disc. I couldn’t believe the publisher would rip people off by issuing such a version under the guise of it being a special edition.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#45

Post by silveroriole »

clarry wrote: post #29
leetcrew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went back to human revolution a couple months ago. I loved it the first time, but I was really surprised how clunky a game from 2011 felt. I think there were also some scaling issues with my 4k monitor. it's really too bad; mankind divided had a much better "feel" to it, but the story was not as interesting or well developed.

I played HR for the first time last month and couldn't finish it, because it bored me to death and then gave me stupid boss fights. It's so dumbed down and just doesn't come close to the first Deus Ex. And yes it felt clunkier than the first game (I lost count of how many times I fell to my death trying to jump onto some platform to perhaps find a secret or hidden route, only to hit a stupid invisible wall)..

Somehow it got away with the same “click a button, get a cutscene” ending as Mass Effect 3 without the same level of outrage. Deeply boring game even at the time.

The original DX, on the other hand - it took me years to get past the first level, but once I did it was really engaging.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#46

Post by ixfo »

trabant00 wrote: post #6

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

I think it can, just not so often - there's a lot of empowered indies out there. ZA/UM and Disco Elysium springs to mind.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#47

Post by watwut »

clarry wrote: post #29
leetcrew wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went back to human revolution a couple months ago. I loved it the first time, but I was really surprised how clunky a game from 2011 felt. I think there were also some scaling issues with my 4k monitor. it's really too bad; mankind divided had a much better "feel" to it, but the story was not as interesting or well developed.

I played HR for the first time last month and couldn't finish it, because it bored me to death and then gave me stupid boss fights. It's so dumbed down and just doesn't come close to the first Deus Ex. And yes it felt clunkier than the first game (I lost count of how many times I fell to my death trying to jump onto some platform to perhaps find a secret or hidden route, only to hit a stupid invisible wall)..

Deus Ex went downhill over time. First was great. Second was not much meh. Third had stupid boss fights and I decided that trying to finish it is not worth time.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#48

Post by laumars »

trabant00 wrote: post #6

> ‘You can make any game you want, you can take as long as you want, and money’s not an issue’. > ‘Just run the studio, we’ll pay the bills and keep you isolated from anything that’s happening up here in Dallas’. I don't think this can happen today and I also believe this is the reason we don't see anything close to the original Deus Ex.

The issue these days isn't so much time nor money but rather the difficulty in standing out from the pack when so much of game mechanics has already been discovered. Each breakthrough in technology has been followed by iconic "first of it's era" games, eg: - Mario 64, Crash Bandicoot and others with their demonstration of how to translate a platformer to a 3D world

- Tomb Raider with it's "even the scenery can be explored"

- Shenmue with it's 3D open world and concept of fully immersing the player in the role

- Half-Life, System Shock and others with their emphasis on story and setting

But these ideas have been well explored and so games like Alien Isolation, which is a great game, aren't held in such high esteem.

The solution to that is to look outside of the traditional gaming paradigm. Look at indie games and see what they're creating -- there's some really great indie titles out there. Look at games that utilise new technology like VR (ok, technically VR has been around since the 90s but it's only really becoming mainstream now) and you'll see some stand out titles there too.

If you're only looking at games like Deus Ex then it could be easy to miss all the other stuff going on.

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#49

Post by eyerony »

ubermonkey wrote: post #16
mdrachuk wrote: post #2

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?

IMHO Perfect Dark is one of the oldest shooters that holds up (play the version on the Xbox 360, maybe also the XBone, not sure). Yeah yeah it's a console shooter, but it's outstanding and hi-res + dual-stick controls make it feel modern-enough. Do note that it has two two-player campaign modes in addition to regular single player: co-op, and... versus. Yes, versus. Also be aware the difficulty modes change the objectives significantly, and sometimes also your starting position, so if it seems weirdly short bump up the difficulty.

I think some of the original frantic shooters hold up alright, for what they are. Quake, stuff like that. They're kinda niche genre now, though. Not sure about the early Dooms, hard to judge those as easily. I like them, still, but...

The Half Life remake in the HL2 engine (Black Mesa) is very true to the spirit of the original and smoothes its rough edges off very elegantly, but the original's probably still fairly playable, too.

First mass effect, oof. It suffers from a lot of "which of the three buildings they made will this quest take place in?". Also having enemies walk right past your AI teammates, who are busy doing nothing, to shoot you in the back over. And over. And over. Gets really frustrating after a while. Two is so much better. You're in for a treat.

[EDIT] on reflection the one mechanic that probably feels off to a modern player in Perfect Dark, and indeed in many older shooters, is having thrown weapons treated like ordinary weapons, rather than a secondary attack with a separate set of items to cycle through. That is, you have to switch away from your gun to arm a thrown weapon, then throw it, then switch back. That's a little clunky. IIRC throwing-is-separate model wasn't popularized until the first Modern Warfare (I've played the first Call of Duty recently and I don't think it was in that, yet—man, talk about one that doesn't seem nearly as good on re-visiting)

Re: Deus Ex at 20: The oral history of a pivotal PC game

#50

Post by ido »

ubermonkey wrote: post #16
mdrachuk wrote: post #2

I really hope they will make a remake of the originals. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution when it was out, but it’s a challenges to enjoy older games most of the time.

What's the oldest viable game to you, now? I just played the first Mass Effect for the first time, and was really impressed by how well it had aged for a game from 2007. I replayed the first Bioshock (also from 2007) not long ago, too, and it, too, holds up IMO. Could we get further back than 2007?

despite the clunky interfaces i had not much trouble replaying fallout 1 & 2 recently (1997-98). I've also often replayed Master of Orion 2 (1996) and SimCity 3000 (1999).

And if you're willing to go with simpler games Pac-man (1980) and tetris (1984) both still hold up, as does Arkanoid (1986).

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