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The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

theatlantic.com

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Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#11

Post by ubercow13 »

battery423 wrote: post #3

Obviously right? I mean look at the state of universities today: Around the globe every semester a professor is standing in front of a class, presenting material and they will do this again and again. Every professor is doing it a little bit different but the main message is the same. In Math its probably even closer between universities while history or social studies might be further appart. Where is our central /…

How would you scale assessment of exercises further than eg. coursera already does?

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#12

Post by battery423 »

thechao wrote: post #8

Looking back on my education 20 years later... obviously the math degree gave me the skill set to take advantage of the opportunities handed to me. (It’s how I got back into grad school & out with a PhD in just 4 years; it let me work with Mike Abrash.) but the skills I learned in school that have helped me as a person were from the courses that weren’t “certificatable”: literary analysis, my beloved history, the phi…

I would say that you have to make sure that there is no real barrier first:

Bring Education online.

THEN the university and learning spaces have the chance of providing whatever 'Education online' can't provide.

That would free up and actually make it possible to evolve education.

If everyone is listing to the same lecture every year again without improvement, we miss out but also having to do the same lecture every year, costs ressources. Optimize your lecture instead of reduing the whole lecture every year.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#13

Post by orbifold »

battery423 wrote: post #3

Obviously right? I mean look at the state of universities today: Around the globe every semester a professor is standing in front of a class, presenting material and they will do this again and again. Every professor is doing it a little bit different but the main message is the same. In Math its probably even closer between universities while history or social studies might be further appart. Where is our central /…

I think you have a fundamentally wrong conception of what it takes to learn advanced concepts. In most cases you can't autograde or award points for everything, it also isn't what University education should be about. It is sad enough that during the Bologna reforms in Europe University education was "industrialised" as much as possible (ECTS points, core modules, etc.).

In the best case a University education in a STEM field will lead you pretty quickly (within 3-5 years) to do research in a lab that does cutting edge work. Most of that lab work can't be distributed or done online, nor can any of the preparatory lab courses in small groups with constant supervision (which are a large part of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Medicine degrees). Even in subjects such as math and computer science a huge part is exercises that are graded and then discussed in small groups of 10-20 people. This wouldn't easily translate to an online experience either.

Universities like Cambridge even offer 1:1 supervision in Math and Physics, this can be totally awesome and is non-replaceable by video chat or online forums.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#14

Post by everdrive »

It's hard not to be pedantic here. CDs still have their place, and a lot of streaming is terrible; either there are advertisements, or DRM, or fidelity costs, or limited libraries due to licensing problems. etc.

I think the metaphor still goes the same way: the old fashioned way may not be perfect, but there is some real value there that is not necessarily replaced by steaming online courses.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#15

Post by stevefan1999 »

I think vocational education could have been better conveyed online, but with perfect pre-recording and editing. Coursera and Edx are a good example for a forerunner though.

As a college student myself, this year, this semester is the worst for me -- I felt really lazy without any faith to keep me going, that with face-to-face activity I feel like I'm motivated to engage. But I hope this semester really is the exception.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#16

Post by dougmwne »

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information received was divorced from the credential, the value dropped precipitously. And this is a hard sciences degree with many "universal truths" to teach. Things get even more squishy when you get into the humanities which are much more idea, opinion and discussion based.

As the linked article points out, employers often look for the degree, but do not believe it is much of an indicator of quality and don't expect new grads to walk in the door with the needed skills. As a former recruiter I think that sentiment is pretty spot on. I don't think I ever asked a candidate about the details of their education. It was just never relevant in comparison to their experience.

So that leaves the on campus experience, which I personally think is amazing. It's like living at a country club for 4 years, crossed with a huge expansion in your world from living at home and going to high school. The new ideas from the classes are just a small part of the new ideas you get exposed to from other students and campus events. Plus with the increasing independence, it's a great gentle introduction to adulthood. Unfortunately all that is not available during the pandemic.

So the content of the classes is in question, the value of the credential is in question, the cost is ballooning and the on campus experience is on an uncertain hiatus. If ever there was a time to disrupt higher ed, that time is now.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#17

Post by clarry »

m000 wrote: post #2

> as employers embrace new skills-based certifications, many students may question the value of the traditional four-year degree Of course employers will embrace skills-based certifications, as they essentially offload the cost of any specialized training to the employee. Until now, it was not uncommon for the employer to pay (directly or indirectly) for the additional training. But I'm not sure if getting a speciali…

> In the end, the problem is not the value of the four-year university degree.

It's not worth it IMO, even if education is virtually free here on the better side of the big pond.

Even at 0 EUR, it's still a lot of time and effort that could be focused much more effectively.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#18

Post by mikece »

How much of a role do the certification bodies (the groups who decide who can grant a bachelor's degree) play the cost of college tuition? I'm a big fan of the classical quadrivium, trivium, and Great Books model of education; why couldn't one complete all of the studies at home, spend six to twelve months in an intensive course of examination and debate to validate the level of education (which could be done online) and receive a bachelor of arts in "the humanities" (or bachelor of letters or whatever one wants to call it)? I think we would have a much more powerful crop of critical and logical thinkers if education were handled thus.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#19

Post by protomyth »

stevefan1999 wrote: post #15

I think vocational education could have been better conveyed online, but with perfect pre-recording and editing. Coursera and Edx are a good example for a forerunner though. As a college student myself, this year, this semester is the worst for me -- I felt really lazy without any faith to keep me going, that with face-to-face activity I feel like I'm motivated to engage. But I hope this semester really is the except…

Its a real struggle for us. The "doing" part of vocational education doesn't really work for at home because of the equipment needed. Its not like typical lecture classes, since it is damn hard to weld at home for example. Never mind the Commercial Drivers License Training which requires use of the simulator until we are confident you have the skill for the actual big rig.

I would actually say vocational is much harder than traditional classes. Heck, laboratory assignments for the sciences are already computerized and don't lose as much value as vocational.

We have to do hand-on appointments and book work remote.

Re: The University Is Like a CD in the Streaming Age

#20

Post by beojan »

dougmwne wrote: post #16

I was having another one of those moments yesterday where I was questioning the value of higher education while reading a HN thread about teaching yourself CS. There was a healthy debate about whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all. Some thought the degree was stuck back in the 70's. Others thought there was value, but had trouble articulating it. It seems that when the information…

> whether the typical CS curriculum helps a modern software engineer at all

The purpose of a computer science curriculum isn't to train a software engineer, it's to train a computer scientist.

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