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Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

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Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#61

Post by logicchains »

rightbyte wrote: post #60
logicchains wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Imagine all the engineering being put into ads, tracking and hft instead of, I dont know, engine emission control or educational programs for kids. Not everybody cares about those things, in fact I'd wager the majority of people I know in HFT would be bored to tears at the thought of working on emission control or children's education programs. What gives you the right to decide how other people should spend their t…

I am not saying I would want to draft Goldman Sachs programmers into digging ditches. I have worked with ECU development and there are low hanging fruit to optimize for there if the effort, brainpower and money was put into it. I just wish that more effort was put into "low margin" classical industrial design than artificial top of the pyramids' algorithms, like banks and ads.

>I just wish that more effort was put into "low margin" classical industrial design than artificial top of the pyramids' algorithms, like banks and ads.

Much of the development of high-performance network switches has been driven by HFT. I doubt Metamako would have been created if HFT wasn't around as a customer.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#62

Post by ChrisLomont »

arnoooooo wrote: post #43
missedthecue wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The machines help humans. The bid/ask spread on a $100 share in 1970 as $5. Now it's $0.003 cents and it will continue to narrow, saving you and I money.

This sounds like circular logic to me. It really saves money to people who want to buy and sell often, which has no social value. I think having a penalty for buying and selling too often is a feature, not a bug : we want investors that think long term.

It benefits the majority of adults in the US and the vast majority of retirees who have exposure to stock vis retirement accounts. It has benefits to every pension fund, including teachers and public sector unions.

I could continue, but don’t poo poo things of which you don’t understand the components or utility.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#64

Post by teempai »

zodiac wrote: post #56
magicalhippo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So randomize the batch window length as well then, say 10-100ms.

If you make a decision to join in the (say) the 5th ms of the batch auction and you have a latency of 1ms, you are still no worse off if you decide to wait 4ms before joining the batch.

You can solve for this with a commit and reveal scheme, where trades with hidden price and size are committed in the first period and revealed and settled in the second period.

The advantage of speed or waiting until the end is mitigated as you can receive no additional information either way.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#65

Post by rightbyte »

logicchains wrote: post #61
rightbyte wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying I would want to draft Goldman Sachs programmers into digging ditches. I have worked with ECU development and there are low hanging fruit to optimize for there if the effort, brainpower and money was put into it. I just wish that more effort was put into "low margin" classical industrial design than artificial top of the pyramids' algorithms, like banks and ads.

>I just wish that more effort was put into "low margin" classical industrial design than artificial top of the pyramids' algorithms, like banks and ads. Much of the development of high-performance network switches has been driven by HFT. I doubt Metamako would have been created if HFT wasn't around as a customer.

Sure. I mean HFT is not destructive or evil or anything (not sarcasm btw). It is more about what fields are lucrative for programmers versus the benefit for socaity.

This is just whining of course I am not saving children at work either.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#66

Post by selectodude »

acjohnson55 wrote: post #19
selectodude wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can assure you, that link already exists several times over. There are dozens of links between Aurora and 350 E Cermak, and dozens more between 350 E Cermak and Cateret, NJ. There's even an entire ISP based off the lowest latency link between Chicago and New York. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_Networks

What's in Aurora? And why West Chicago in the original article? Amusingly, I grew up 2 towns over from Aurora and live 3 towns from Carteret now.

Heh, that became very confusing. The post I replied to was edited at some point asking why there isn’t a direct microwave link down I-88 in Chicago. Sorry about that :)

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#67

Post by sgt101 »

bzb3 wrote: post #33
sgt101 wrote: post #27

If I was regulating the markets I would introduce a random ~100ms delay into all transactions.

The way it is now the company that's invested the most in communications and is better located wins. Meritocracy is good.

I can only assume that either you are being sarcastic, or you haven't got a pension - because if you have I can tell you, your pension is being used to pay the winnings.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#68

Post by sgt101 »

logicchains wrote: post #36
sgt101 wrote: post #27

If I was regulating the markets I would introduce a random ~100ms delay into all transactions.

Why would you do that?

To negate market advantage created by investment and monopoly practices; HFT is front running, front running damages the economy, but more importantly it damages me because I can't do it and therefore it is just being done to me.

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#69

Post by sargun »

logicchains wrote: post #47
oh_sigh wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens in the global market if a single person consistently has a timing advantage over every other participant(because the barrier to building a global satellite network is too high/costly for anyone else)? Could Elon come to own the entire market, or is there some limit to the powers of arbitrage?

If a single player was capturing the entire arbitrage market, they'd be earning enough to justify other players building their own satellite network to capture a piece of the pie.

HFT firms make a lot of money...but space launch is even more costly. :(

Re: Companies Pitch Shortwave Radio to Shave Milliseconds Off Trades

#70

Post by alexpil »

modeless wrote: post #21
sargun wrote: post #15

I remain convinced that this is Starlink's short-term customer if their promises are true. They are doing transmission via optical as the crow flies. If they're doing O-O, or even low latency O-E-O, they can beat transatlantic fiber. For HFT houses, that's potentially a major edge.

Starlink latency would be worse than shortwave. The advantage would be bandwidth, but I doubt that high bandwidth is really helpful for this application, especially if you have to give up a tiny bit of latency for it. After all, you can already have all the bandwidth you want with only slightly higher latency.

starlink latency could be faster than shortwave, once full gen2 constellation launches, and if starlink decides to care about this industry.

...disclosure: i'm the first one to build NY-Chi microwave, and Chi-Lon shortwave.

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