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Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

diabetes.co.uk

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Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#131

Post by Aaronstotle »

rantwasp wrote: post #128
phonypc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy may have been that low, but overwhelmingly due to infant mortality. It's not like primitive humans were dying of old age in their 20s.

not in their 20s but definitely not in their 80s like today. if you reached 50s you were a boss. a lot of things that we consider routine to fix today would have ended your life (broken leg/hand, infections, severe diarrhea, etc). We really under-appreciate how many things we have as tools to expand our lifespan today.

Considering that soldiers in Ancient Greece could only retire after 30 years of service, I think it's fair to say there were plenty of 80 year old "primitive" humans.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#132

Post by phonypc »

rantwasp wrote: post #128
phonypc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life expectancy may have been that low, but overwhelmingly due to infant mortality. It's not like primitive humans were dying of old age in their 20s.

not in their 20s but definitely not in their 80s like today. if you reached 50s you were a boss. a lot of things that we consider routine to fix today would have ended your life (broken leg/hand, infections, severe diarrhea, etc). We really under-appreciate how many things we have as tools to expand our lifespan today.

From what I remember, it was more like if you made it past adolescence, making it to 50 was about normal. All kind of beside the point; you seemingly rejected the relevance of the primitive human diet based on their life expectancy. I don't think that follows.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#133

Post by badabadadook »

I'm a t1dm, have been for >9y. I'm been doing keto for 6-7, intermittent fasting / one-meal-a-day for 2.5, carnivore for 1.5. Nonetheless, I started with all that jazz post-honeymoon. I take insulin, and I don't believe a 'cure' is ever the right word with regard some more complicated diseases. Treating symptoms != cure.

A lady from Hungary (interview in [1]) and her team have published studies[2] about several cases of newly diagnosed type-one diabetics fulling forgoing(!) insulin medication, or any medication for that matter, for relatively long periods (1-1.5y, I believe she said in the interview), given they strictly fow the diet- it being a very low carbohydrate one. One had not followed, relapsed into carbs 2-3w into it and he had to go back to insulin. It's no long-term study, but it's better than nothing, and from my acquaintances, and online readings, @1.5y honeymoon phase should have fizzled out.

Anyways, the initial period seems to be crucial, a lot of research focuses on what can be done then, and the one's who've had it some time [3]. Lowering insulin is one thing, the other benefits are major too- stable, predictable bg levels forever; better mood, energy; restriction diets help you notice what exactly might have previously you bloated, gassy, get heartburn, mouth dryness, etc.; yadda yadda. The bald puerorican biochemis from [4] gives rather slowly the details of how a pure carb diet would work - his ins/carb ratio was something insane-, of both of them, really-, like ~1/26. Compare with my ~1/1.7

The interviewer is a bit annoying, but I can't remember off the top of my head of other sources, so apologies.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlm6dMHnNC0 [2] https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/dr-zsofia-clemens [3] anecdotally, research arts with newly diagnoseds are abundant [4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7dyGwnbp1w

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#134

Post by phonypc »

Aaronstotle wrote: post #131
rantwasp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not in their 20s but definitely not in their 80s like today. if you reached 50s you were a boss. a lot of things that we consider routine to fix today would have ended your life (broken leg/hand, infections, severe diarrhea, etc). We really under-appreciate how many things we have as tools to expand our lifespan today.

Considering that soldiers in Ancient Greece could only retire after 30 years of service, I think it's fair to say there were plenty of 80 year old "primitive" humans.

I think we're talking prehistory, pre-agriculture here.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#135

Post by Trasmatta »

1123581321 wrote: post #112
RHSeeger wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With this regimen, you would simply do as your blood sugar numbers direct. That's true of every regimen, though.

The person I replied to seemed to think that the regimen directed to quit insulin without support from the numbers, leading to diabetic ketoacidosis.

That's not what I think at all. But it's what other people think when they see articles like the one linked. I've had many, many people tell me in the past that I can cure my T1D with keto, which is why articles like this one annoy me.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#136

Post by 1123581321 »

Trasmatta wrote: post #135
1123581321 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person I replied to seemed to think that the regimen directed to quit insulin without support from the numbers, leading to diabetic ketoacidosis.

That's not what I think at all. But it's what other people think when they see articles like the one linked. I've had many, many people tell me in the past that I can cure my T1D with keto, which is why articles like this one annoy me.

As a fellow type 1, I understand the frustration.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#137

Post by rantwasp »

phonypc wrote: post #134
Aaronstotle wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that soldiers in Ancient Greece could only retire after 30 years of service, I think it's fair to say there were plenty of 80 year old "primitive" humans.

I think we're talking prehistory, pre-agriculture here.

that what i also though. at least 10000 years ago if not more

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#138

Post by inetsee »

hhjinks wrote: post #130
inetsee wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These prices are not high. I went through a period when I had no health insurance, and I had to rely on generic insulin, the kind you can buy at Walmart for $25 a vial. I have insurance now and the insulin I take now costs me a co-pay of $100 a vial. Paying $35 a vial without insurance is not bad at all.

What's wrong with the cheap generic?

The cheap generic doesn't have the same effect profile. It's much harder to match an insulin bolus for the carbohydrates you're eating at a meal. The combination of fast acting and basal insulin can do a much better job of keeping your glucose readings in a good range.

That said, the same kinds of insulin cost a lot less in many foreign countries than they do in the United States.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#139

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

DataDaoDe wrote: post #72
Trasmatta wrote: post #21

I'm a type 1 diabetic and find these articles and studies frustrating. Or at least the way people interpret them. > Two weeks after adopting the low carb approach insulin was no longer needed. After 18 months insulin therapy was once again required at low doses of around 16 units per day. HbA1c remained very well controlled on the LCHF diet with insulin. So during the honeymoon period, he was able to live without ins…

Here is the actual study [1]. This is n=3, so we are talking about highly anecdotal data. Nonetheless, I think this statement is misplaced: > Low carb diets can help type 1 diabetics, but it's not a cure Likely, as in most cases, the real picture is much more complex. It could be the case that LCHF diets can cure some percentage of individuals, can help some percentage and can be detrimental perhaps even fatal to som…

You need a small amount of insulin even during ketocis, otherwise you will go into ketoacidosis. Type 1 diabetics suffer from destruction of b islet cells and thus have reduced to zero insulin production. There are some reasons why you might have a small insulin production( e.g. acute pancreatitis destroying some but not all b islet cells) but those are pretty rare. For most people the destruction happens as a result of an auto-immune disorder and eventually they all get destroyed. So maybe there's a period between the diagnosis( usually around ~90% destroyed cells) and when all cells get destroyed that you can manage it with keto. But it won't last forever and thus is not a cure.

Re: Low carb diet leads to “clinical remission” in 3 cases of type 1 diabetes

#140

Post by HeadsUpHigh »

ovi256 wrote: post #90
Kye wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both those prices seem excessive.

The best part of economic freedom is that one is free to start a manufacturer delivering a cheaper whatever one is complaining is too expensive!

Not with the way the FDA has a pile of rules and regulations that combined have the unintended effect of blocking the market. Drugs of all kinds are not in a market state of economic freedom. There are pros and cons of the situation, but at least please stop pretending that it's a free market.
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