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A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

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Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#21

Post by clairity »

dmitriid wrote: post #18
dhritzkiv wrote: post #2

More specifically, how JavaScript can do a lot in browser by interacting through the DOM API. The modernization of the DOM API in the last 5 years has done a lot to remove the need for jQuery et al, and has made building the View part of JavaScript apps much more frictionless.

You still end up re-implementing half of jQuery. Because element creation is just as much passion as it was in 1999. Because useful functions are limited or stunted compared to jQuery counterparts (querySelectorAll returns a weird object instead of an array and throws exceptions if you as as much as as look at it funny, etc.).

ha, i just went through this today, querySelectorAll returns a NodeList, which is static rather than live, requiring you to iterate through the list rather than acting on the elements directly.

but it's nice that jquery (as convenient as it is) is no longer a must-have library for dom manipulation.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#22

Post by ShamelessC »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #7

I agree about the nuisance of creating DOM elements. innerHTML is OK if you’re doing static content, but for anything that needs to be dynamic (untrusted input, event handlers, etc.) I have a little tiny helper library that I carry around in my head and write into projects that need it: const $T = text => document.createTextNode(text) function $E(tag, props, kids) { const elem = document.createElement(tag) for (const…

Would you mind explaining what this does?

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#23

Post by anonytrary »

blackrock wrote: post #20

Instead of HTML, can’t JavaScript just be used to paint the browser canvas? You can create your text boxes, your drop downs, buttons, etc., everything that makes it a GUI application. Then you fetch your data, per the page you display, via JSON, and fill in the fields. The initial JavaScript download is heavy, but the normal usage of the web application should be quicker, as you’re only fetching the relevant data to…

I think you just described the browser. While there are some efforts to do canvas-only rendering in JS, they aren't mature and are meant for specific use-cases like game boards and stock charts. For a typical website, this approach would likely have negative implications for your site's accessibility and usability; the site would also be harder to index.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#24

Post by userbinator »

I’ve never worked as a professional frontend developer, so even though I’ve been writing HTML/CSS/JS for 15 years for little side projects, all of the projects have been pretty small

I'm pretty much the same, and one thing I've noticed which continues to both amuse and sadden me is the fact that those whose main focus is not web development often make better sites/pages than "professional" developers. I once rewrote, in a few hours, an internal site that had been developed by another team over a few weeks but with many problems (it was an enormous SPA), and made it so much faster and easier to use that once my coworkers found out, they all switched to using mine. That didn't go over well with the team who built the original...

Another experience I've had with a dedicated frontend developer: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18486124

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#26

Post by gear54rus »

rasz wrote: post #25

If little can do a lot just imagine what I can do with few megabytes: Google Gmail/Youtube engineers

Probably a good batch of spaghetti code if you think vanilla can be used for anything serious.

Or rewrite react yourself as another commenter already did.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#27

Post by gear54rus »

blackrock wrote: post #20

Instead of HTML, can’t JavaScript just be used to paint the browser canvas? You can create your text boxes, your drop downs, buttons, etc., everything that makes it a GUI application. Then you fetch your data, per the page you display, via JSON, and fill in the fields. The initial JavaScript download is heavy, but the normal usage of the web application should be quicker, as you’re only fetching the relevant data to…

You described an SPA. Fetch relevant data and render to controls. Not sure why we need canvas for that.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#28

Post by andrewstuart »

I'm an experienced React developer.

I wanted to try out writing a plain vanilla JavaScript application - I enjoy plain JavaScript, it feels close to the metal.

It wasn't long before I was craving an application framework that allowed me to cleanly organise and structure my application instead of it rapidly becoming a spaghetti.

I also craved the ability to write small simple functions for making components.

And I wanted a sensible way to organise data flow through the application.

And I really, really wanted to be able to write in a declarative programming style instead of imperative - this is something you don't come to appreciate fully until you've lived it.

And I don't care what anyone else says - I love JSX - it's totally makes sense to me.

So despite a solid effort to try to go to vanilla JavaScript I've decided that a really good JavaScript application framework - whatever one you like - is a good thing. I'll leave vanilla JavaScript to the birds.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#29

Post by triceratops »

blackrock wrote: post #20

Instead of HTML, can’t JavaScript just be used to paint the browser canvas? You can create your text boxes, your drop downs, buttons, etc., everything that makes it a GUI application. Then you fetch your data, per the page you display, via JSON, and fill in the fields. The initial JavaScript download is heavy, but the normal usage of the web application should be quicker, as you’re only fetching the relevant data to…

> You can create your text boxes, your drop downs, buttons, etc., everything that makes it a GUI application.

The browser gives you all that for free, just by writing some HTML. And allows your website to be accessible and indexable. It seems like a lot of work to re-implement that, for little benefit. It doesn't seem worth the hassle, but maybe there's something I've overlooked.

> normal usage of the web application should be quicker, as you’re only fetching the relevant data to fill each of the required widgets...Or did I just describe some already popular JavaScript framework?

Every popular JS framework already does all of this.

Re: A little bit of plain JavaScript can do a lot

#30

Post by triceratops »

userbinator wrote: post #24

I’ve never worked as a professional frontend developer, so even though I’ve been writing HTML/CSS/JS for 15 years for little side projects, all of the projects have been pretty small I'm pretty much the same, and one thing I've noticed which continues to both amuse and sadden me is the fact that those whose main focus is not web development often make better sites/pages than "professional" developers. I once rewrote,…

I'm sorry to say this, but it's not a problem with the newfangled stuff. I think you just don't work with very good frontend devs. Which isn't surprising honestly - it has the lowest barrier for entry of any programming specialization (I started there myself).
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