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NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

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Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#31

Post by runlevel1 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #18

Am I misunderstanding something here or does this imply that up until now the city of NYC did not have full access and transparency concerning the capacities of the NYPD? How is this even a thing? I don't know much about the US political system but how is it that the police is not entirely subjected to civic government and why does a law need to be passed to control what the NYPD does?

You can't scrutinize what you don't know about. So every bit of transparency has been hard-fought.

Take the NYPD's use of proprietary "predictive policing" algorithms to identify where a crime may occur and identify individuals who may be a perpetrator.

These algorithms have long been feared to express the biases of their input data. [1]

The NYPD has obstructed freedom of information requests at every turn. They wouldn't even release their correspondence with the vendor because it "would reveal trade secret information." [2]

If we can't examine it or even know how it's being used, it's significantly more difficult to scrutinize.

[1]: https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm...

[2]: https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/cour...

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#32

Post by syshum »

nojito wrote: post #28
psychometry wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police have their hooks in every level of government. Police unions have very large coffers and money talks.

This is never the case. The issue is almost always due to the costs of hosting and making available the data. Look up the open justice initiative in California.

No the costs of hosting the data is not the reason they hide it.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#34

Post by squarefoot »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #26
mtgp1000 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but this post is hysteria. Police deal with violent criminals who have no regard for police life; in fact often they are explicitly against police. They're going to learn techniques appropriate for dealing with such people. Some of those techniques will be violent a…

I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police. “ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the ho…

Other reports also tell the cops weren't wearing uniforms, which in this case should exonerate the boyfriend of any guilt.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#35

Post by a1369209993 »

dang wrote: post #21
schoolornot wrote: post #8

There is something even MORE important to be released and that is the police training manuals and materials which the NYPD have been hiding from FOIL requests for over a decade now. To all New Yorkers: You are currently NOT ENTITLED to see the methods and techniques taught at the NYPD academy. Requests are being denied on these grounds: "Deniable records include records or portions thereof that: (e) are compiled for…

Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .

Tangentially to this, is there any way to view the actual raw text of a (arbitrary) HN post? Because there are no asterisks in your displayed text. Clearly the text exists, because 'edit' links work, but there doesn't seem to be any way to retrieve it from a post you can't edit.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#36

Post by akudha »

In the last few weeks many cities have passed laws to bring more transparency to police brutality.

This is a good step, but I am curious - how much are these laws enforceable? I was just reading that some Atlanta cops are not reporting to work - protest for the arrest of the cop who shot Rayshard Brooks. If that is the mentality, how much cooperation can we expect? Not talking about this particular NYC law, just in general.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#37

Post by jacobush »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #27
geofft wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus a good amount of technical know-how and ops work, which is only free if you're a hobbyist building a proof of concept. If you're the actual NYPD and you want it to work accurately and reliably in prod, you need budget for either in-house tech talent or a company that will do it for you.

True. A city near me paid about $350k for a few dozen ALPR cameras at major intersections. Not a bad price for near total surveillance of every vehicle traveling in and out of town

How do you feel about that?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SECu1fR0dWE&t...

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#38

Post by pmorici »

akudha wrote: post #36

In the last few weeks many cities have passed laws to bring more transparency to police brutality. This is a good step, but I am curious - how much are these laws enforceable? I was just reading that some Atlanta cops are not reporting to work - protest for the arrest of the cop who shot Rayshard Brooks. If that is the mentality, how much cooperation can we expect? Not talking about this particular NYC law, just in g…

Two thoughts. Fire the ones that refuse to comply. The unemployment rate is 15% right now. Second you have a law enforcement agency that is separate from the one with the problem enforce the rules. That could be a state police agency that polices the local police or a special investigative part of the government that ensures compliance.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#39

Post by icelancer »

pmorici wrote: post #38
akudha wrote: post #36

In the last few weeks many cities have passed laws to bring more transparency to police brutality. This is a good step, but I am curious - how much are these laws enforceable? I was just reading that some Atlanta cops are not reporting to work - protest for the arrest of the cop who shot Rayshard Brooks. If that is the mentality, how much cooperation can we expect? Not talking about this particular NYC law, just in g…

Two thoughts. Fire the ones that refuse to comply. The unemployment rate is 15% right now. Second you have a law enforcement agency that is separate from the one with the problem enforce the rules. That could be a state police agency that polices the local police or a special investigative part of the government that ensures compliance.

This already is a thing in places (internal affairs) and it never goes well or efficiently. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes and all. Reducing their power/influence is the only sure bet.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#40

Post by 6AA4FD »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #26
mtgp1000 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but this post is hysteria. Police deal with violent criminals who have no regard for police life; in fact often they are explicitly against police. They're going to learn techniques appropriate for dealing with such people. Some of those techniques will be violent a…

I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police. “ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the ho…

Just a heads up I think her name is spelled Breonna[0]. Not a knock against the rest of your post, I like it.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Breonna_Taylor

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