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NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

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Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#21

Post by dang »

schoolornot wrote: post #8

There is something even MORE important to be released and that is the police training manuals and materials which the NYPD have been hiding from FOIL requests for over a decade now. To all New Yorkers: You are currently NOT ENTITLED to see the methods and techniques taught at the NYPD academy. Requests are being denied on these grounds: "Deniable records include records or portions thereof that: (e) are compiled for…

Please don't use uppercase for emphasis. If you want to emphasize a word or phrase, put asterisks around it and it will get italicized.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#22

Post by catalogia »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #20
squarefoot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very likely they're using military psychological training. The rules of engagement they adopt against citizens don't seem that different from those used by soldiers in enemy territory. The complete lack of empathy towards human life reminds of the depersonalizing of the enemy that helps soldiers remain efficient and detached while they slaughter their "targets". For that matter, even more important than the manuals a…

This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but this post is hysteria. Police deal with violent criminals who have no regard for police life; in fact often they are explicitly against police. They're going to learn techniques appropriate for dealing with such people. Some of those techniques will be violent a…

> Background: Despite veterans' preference hiring policies by law enforcement agencies, no studies have examined the nature or effects of military service or deployments on health outcomes. This study will examine the effect of military veteran status and deployment history on law enforcement officer (LEO)-involved shootings.

> Methods: Ten years of data were extracted from Dallas Police Department records. LEOs who were involved in a shooting in the past 10 years were frequency matched on sex to LEOs never involved in a shooting. Military discharge records were examined to quantify veteran status and deployment(s). Multivariable logistic regression was used to estimate the effect of veteran status and deployment history on officer-involved shooting involvement.

> Results: Records were abstracted for 516 officers. In the adjusted models, veteran LEOs who were not deployed were significantly more likely to be involved in a shooting than non-veteran officers. Veterans with a deployment history were 2.9 times more likely to be in a shooting than non-veteran officers.

> Conclusions: Military veteran status, regardless of deployment history, is associated with increased odds of shootings among LEOs. Future studies should identify mechanisms that explain this relationship, and whether officers who experienced firsthand combat exposure experience greater odds of shooting involvement.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30281075/

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#23

Post by jdsully »

gruez wrote: post #17
godzillabrennus wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For it to be admissible in court. Most people can’t afford an attorney and end up taking a plea.

Actually, there's a "good faith" (aka. "ignorance of the law") exception for cops. So even a lawyer might not be able to save you. https://www.justia.com/criminal/procedure/search-and-seizure... >A mistake of law by a police officer sometimes can trigger the exception. If an officer takes steps based on the existing interpretation of the law, but a court later rules that the law should be interpreted differently, the…

Your mainstream explanation isn't correct. This only applies when a court replaces an existing precedent - a relatively rare occurrence. Police shouldn't be expected to anticipate the court's change of heart ahead of time.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#24

Post by maxerickson »

Barrin92 wrote: post #18

Am I misunderstanding something here or does this imply that up until now the city of NYC did not have full access and transparency concerning the capacities of the NYPD? How is this even a thing? I don't know much about the US political system but how is it that the police is not entirely subjected to civic government and why does a law need to be passed to control what the NYPD does?

There's likely some earlier law passed by the same body directing the NYPD to have a policy, or carry out an activity, without the specific requirement for the information.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#25

Post by psychometry »

Barrin92 wrote: post #18

Am I misunderstanding something here or does this imply that up until now the city of NYC did not have full access and transparency concerning the capacities of the NYPD? How is this even a thing? I don't know much about the US political system but how is it that the police is not entirely subjected to civic government and why does a law need to be passed to control what the NYPD does?

Police have their hooks in every level of government. Police unions have very large coffers and money talks.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#26

Post by TaylorAlexander »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #20
squarefoot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very likely they're using military psychological training. The rules of engagement they adopt against citizens don't seem that different from those used by soldiers in enemy territory. The complete lack of empathy towards human life reminds of the depersonalizing of the enemy that helps soldiers remain efficient and detached while they slaughter their "targets". For that matter, even more important than the manuals a…

This post is at odds with the fact that the military teaches stricter rules of engagement than police forces. There may be a culture problem in the force but this post is hysteria. Police deal with violent criminals who have no regard for police life; in fact often they are explicitly against police. They're going to learn techniques appropriate for dealing with such people. Some of those techniques will be violent a…

I mean, I’ve been hearing a lot of cases where the police killed people who were definitely not “violent criminals who have no regard for police life”. Brianna Taylor’s boyfriend wasn’t a violent criminal when he fired at the police.

“ A defence attorney for Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, says he fired in self-defence because police did not announce themselves and that he believed they were breaking in to the home.”

The police did a no-knock raid unannounced on the wrong home, then shot EMT Brianna Taylor 8 times. Those violent techniques are at issue here. They seem to be violations of 5th and/or 14th amendment rights and clearly not appropriate.

https://lailasnews.com/international/brianna-taylor-death-br...

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#27

Post by Rebelgecko »

geofft wrote: post #14
Rebelgecko wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do ALPR at a decent level with $100 of hardware. The cost of doing surveillance isn't necessarily going to be a lot

Plus a good amount of technical know-how and ops work, which is only free if you're a hobbyist building a proof of concept. If you're the actual NYPD and you want it to work accurately and reliably in prod, you need budget for either in-house tech talent or a company that will do it for you.

True. A city near me paid about $350k for a few dozen ALPR cameras at major intersections. Not a bad price for near total surveillance of every vehicle traveling in and out of town

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#28

Post by nojito »

psychometry wrote: post #25
Barrin92 wrote: post #18

Am I misunderstanding something here or does this imply that up until now the city of NYC did not have full access and transparency concerning the capacities of the NYPD? How is this even a thing? I don't know much about the US political system but how is it that the police is not entirely subjected to civic government and why does a law need to be passed to control what the NYPD does?

Police have their hooks in every level of government. Police unions have very large coffers and money talks.

This is never the case. The issue is almost always due to the costs of hosting and making available the data.

Look up the open justice initiative in California.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#29

Post by bobthepanda »

Barrin92 wrote: post #18

Am I misunderstanding something here or does this imply that up until now the city of NYC did not have full access and transparency concerning the capacities of the NYPD? How is this even a thing? I don't know much about the US political system but how is it that the police is not entirely subjected to civic government and why does a law need to be passed to control what the NYPD does?

Generally speaking, the NYPD operates under the executive branch (the mayor) and the legislative branch (City Council) can declare whatever powers they want to oversee, but they do have to be explicitly declared first.

The separation of powers in NYC/NYS is very messy so this doesn't surprise me.

Re: NYC passes POST Act, requiring police department to reveal surveillance tech

#30

Post by [deleted] »

walterbell wrote: post #13

Does this include Google's Sidewalk / CityBridge / LinkNYC kiosks (multiple sensors and cameras) partnership with NYC? https://gizmodo.com/nycs-free-wifi-service-is-turning-into-a... https://cryptome.org/2016/06/linknyc-spy-kiosks-installation... https://theintercept.com/2020/05/08/andrew-cuomo-eric-schmid...

[deleted]
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