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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#491

Post by pdonis »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #260
pdonis wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns? I get that it's unpleasant for developers who don't like the policy, and at some point it might have business consequences for Apple if they don't change the policy, but why is it unethical?

Think of a flee market. Lets say this flee market runs their own PoS system that tables can use, they require all sales happen via this PoS system "to protect customers from hacking", and they charge a percentage for providing this service, higher then normal under the guise that the transaction is being conducted on their property, they are "hosting" the "sale" under their roof, so they set the terms for it. Seems f…

> the whole

Is nothing like the situation with respect to Apple, so I don't see how your extended analogy here is relevant.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#492

Post by redwall_hp »

zaroth wrote: post #163
mikenew wrote: post #118

I've been a freelance iOS app developer for almost a decade. Apple has always operated this way. They have rules that are somewhat vague, and they choose when they want to enforce them and how they should be interpreted. For example: you weren't allowed to show device bezels in app store screenshots for a long time, even though all the major apps did exactly that. If you were a small time developer though you would g…

Humans applying policy will be inconsistent. The alternative is Google where algorithms apply policy, and if they misapply a policy to you're simply screwed. I think the inverse to "Apple employed humans make a judgement call" is "Apple is no longer allowed to control their App Store". I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

> I don't like that option, because the curated App Store is a big reason why I bought an iPhone.

You can have a curated app store but still...not gatekeep what software the user can install. Installs via web pages, app store listings that are deprioritized or hidden from the default search view. I'd go so far as they should be legally compelled to do that at a bare minimum.

There are myriad apps that users wanted, but Apple nixed them. Whether it's shady rentseeking like the Hey instance or content they find objectionable. How many times have social media sites like Tumblr or Reddit had to deal with their pearl-clutching over nudity? Screw them, they have no right. I can't even imagine how miserable desktop computing would be if that were the paradigm over the last 30 years.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#493

Post by twicetwice »

reaperducer wrote: post #448
twicetwice wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also not allowed. I think Hey would be fine charging $142 a year for a subscription in their app, with a little note below saying "you can get this for $99 on our website, the difference is Apple's cut." In fact, if I understand it correctly, the price in-app has to be the same as the price anywhere else. They're literally not allowed to do what you're suggesting and pass the cost of Apple's fee on to consumer…

You just Charge everyone the same and don't tell the customers that they're paying Apple's cut. Just like Hey doesn't tell its customers what percentage of its fee goes to the water company, or the electric company, or to company travel. This is how business works.

So Hey should boost their prices everywhere, even on their own site, to $142, so that they can make up Apple's cut? Which is what Apple demands. I don't think that's reasonable.

I think that you and I are broadly in agreement. If Hey were allowed to charge $142 in their iPhone app, and $99 on their website, I'd think that was much less ridiculous than the situation as it stands today.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#494

Post by twicetwice »

nodamage wrote: post #457
twicetwice wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly have a monopoly on "distributing software to iPhones." I don't get why no one makes this point. One could argue it's a monopoly they've earned. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But certainly there is a market for iPhone app distribution, and Apple has a monopoly in that market.

Because at that point you've redefined the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes tautological.

How so? Seriously. There seem to be lots of people who don't consider Apple to have a monopoly in any market, and I just don't get it. Can you explain the argument for that position?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#495

Post by gdsdfe »

ta17711771 wrote: post #197
gdsdfe wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's all this tribalism in the world nowadays ... it's like just tell me, are you with me or against me? as if these are the only options

That way I can downvote you or upvote you, regardless of if you contribute to the discussion.

Why? I was just branching out onto what seemed to be a good conversation ... Like I'm doing right now.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#496

Post by jessaustin »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #276
jessaustin wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't clear that Hey couldn't just be a PWA like many other email services?

Do you have any statistics breaking down how frequently mobile users access email via a PWA versus a dedicated app? Also surveys on the difference in user experience? If not, please refrain from disingenuously advancing obviously problematic ideas. It adds nothing to the conversation.

...disingenuously...

It was a serious question. I'm sorry if it caught you in a situation that didn't allow you to perceive it in that way.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#497

Post by nodamage »

twicetwice wrote: post #494
nodamage wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because at that point you've redefined the word "monopoly" to the point where it becomes tautological.

How so? Seriously. There seem to be lots of people who don't consider Apple to have a monopoly in any market, and I just don't get it. Can you explain the argument for that position?

Because there are meaningful alternatives to the iPhone on the market.

If I claim that a gas station has a monopoly within a three block radius, that might be technically true, but only because of the constraints I applied. It's not actually a meaningful distinction if the consumer can drive down a bit further and find another gas station.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#498

Post by pdonis »

acituan wrote: post #471
reaperducer wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you increase the price of your app by 30 to make up for Apple's cut%. It's called business. It happens all the time in every single industry. If a business' property taxes go up, that cost is passed on to its customers. Why do people think that because something is on a phone that it should be any different?

> It's called business. It happens all the time in every single industry And we call those situations market failures . Besides, in this case the market failure is due to a monopolistic mechanism, which doesn't happen "all the time in every industry". If we are going to do markets, let's do it properly. Increasing price %30 causes a corresponding decrease in the demand, and in aggregate this can cause a decrease in t…

> we call those situations market failures.

To the extent that this situation is a "market failure", it's not one that's fixable except by users changing their preferences.

> in this case the market failure is due to a monopolistic mechanism

Apple only has a "monopoly" on their own app store because they built it. Users are not being forced to use iPhones; they choose to because they believe iPhones give them better value overall than the alternatives. That's called free market competition, not monopoly.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#499

Post by etse »

nodamage wrote: post #407
SpaceRaccoon wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about that. It's about the VP's explanation being disingenuous. Apple's issue isn't that the app doesn't work, despite their claim. It's that they can't collect money. They should just be honest.

I agree that's a crappy explanation by the VP but that's not the actual reason for the rejection.

I too think it’s a poor response from the head of the App Store but we shouldn’t pretend to think we know the “actual” reason that much better because we are given a link to the ever-changing App Store regulations webpage.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#500

Post by monadic2 »

dexterdog wrote: post #384
monadic2 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what people think Apple vets apps for.

I assume they vet the apps to make sure there is no other revenue inside the app that Apple is not getting its tax on.

Well it’s ultimately rather arbitrary isn’t it?
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