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You download the app and it doesn’t work

youdownloadtheappanditdoesntwork.com

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Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#281

Post by iainmerrick »

sukilot wrote: post #225
iainmerrick wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with everyone else here that Apple’s weird rules and the inconsistent way they’re enforced are both bad. But I don’t think the solution is as obvious as “drop the 30% cut”. How should Apple go about making money from the App Store? Paid apps are dwindling off. They do charge a flat fee per developer, but it can’t be too large or they’ll lose all the indie developers, and there just aren’t enough developers ov…

Dead simple: apple could charge a low fee hosting ($99/yr) and a higher fee for promotion . Or Apple could drop the charade and charge users for access to apps based on whatever pricing scheme they want.

Those are good ideas, yeah, but nothing is perfect.

The promotions one is interesting; I think it has the same pitfall as AdWords: if my app / web page is the best result for the user for a given search, why should I have to pay money to promote it? If Apple or Google is doing their job right, taking money for promotions is actively detrimental to users. Not that that stops AdWords, of course.

Charging the users would make sense. It’s a shame that we’ve all been trained to expect this stuff to be free.

I guess subscription-based stores are a decent approach? Like Apple Arcade. But that has downsides for users too -- you potentially end up paying multiple subscriptions (like most people do now for streaming TV) so it adds barriers to entry for new (possibly better) stores. Who wants to pay for yet another subscription service?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#282

Post by ratww »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #224
jpttsn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate to this. Some vendors sell me hardware, and I can bring my own software. Apple sells me more expensive hardware with the software only from their “partners”, which is “curated” and subject to a steep 30% distribution cut. Apple never tricked me into an iPhone believing I could run any random software. I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else?

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else. The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS). My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchase…

> ...or anything else.

I'll bring it up again: game consoles. Steam. And no, they don't deserve a pass.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#283

Post by detaro »

sukilot wrote: post #268
detaro wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you price your subscriptions purely by the marginal expense of serving the content/service to another customer? Or do you price them according to what the market will pay for your product?

Totally different. The goal here is to maximize my profit and minimize my expenses.

Then don't be surprised that Apple works to maximize their profits too. Which neatly answers the question why Apple does pricing like that.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#284

Post by reustle »

I have no horse in this race, but it has been interesting to watch the conversations grow over the past few days on this topic. Some people are so pro-Apple on this, clearly ignoring some of the primary complaints (like no option to not use the App Store for distribution).

As I get older, I can't help but wonder if these people are simply shareholders of Apple (or any company in a discussion like this). Is this good for society overall, to have such a strong financial incentive for so many people to willfully ignore the other side of important arguments?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#285

Post by curyous »

pdonis wrote: post #251
MrStonedOne wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it pertinent to point out that comments like yours help keep the status quo. Pointing out that apple is not alone in a thread trying to raise awareness about apple's practices both distracts from apple's unethical behavior and contributes to normalizing the behavior in public perception. So my question to you is: do you want to see these unethical behaviors end? or continue?

Why is it unethical to charge a fee to developers who want to distribute their software through an app store that Apple owns? I get that it's unpleasant for developers who don't like the policy, and at some point it might have business consequences for Apple if they don't change the policy, but why is it unethical?

It’s the size of the fee that is unethical.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#286

Post by baddox »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #159
paulhodge wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is definitely one of the easier cases to think about, the rest are in a grey area. But even with Tesla it's not 100% crystal clear. There might be some buyers who pick Tesla specifically because of the fancy tech features like Summon mode. It's impossible to use Summon mode without the app. So for one of those buyers, the app is an essential part of the purchase, just like HEY subscribers who expect to read ema…

I don't think every app comes with a clear label attached, but I think most people could decide which apps are the product and which apps are just a feature for the product. For argument's sake, I'll claim the core distinction to be if the only realistic alternative to use a product is through an app on another platform or through a web browser, then the app is the core product and not just a supporting feature. The…

I just don’t think the distinction is actually as clear as you describe it. Most of these apps are clients for a server-based product that you’re paying for. One could argue that the Netflix app isn’t the product, it’s just a video player that you use to connect to the server that you’re paying to have access to. If Netflix just exposed .mp4 links in a web browser, then it would work fine in Safari on an iPhone.

Or imagine a cloud-based e-book service that you can just SSH into. Should Apple allow apps marketed simply as SSH clients, but not allow an SSH client branded with that e-book service?

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#287

Post by mateusjatenee »

jbombadil wrote: post #279

Legitimate question: assume I sell a service that costs $7. If I understand Apple's current restrictions I sell it for $10 on the app and for $7 on my website, correct? If so, can I put a banner on my app that says "hey, you can buy this on my website for $7?" (without any links to the website). Just inform the user of that fact.

No, you are required to use the same pricing on both platforms.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#288

Post by realtalk_sp »

jedberg wrote: post #214
arduinomancer wrote: post #175

Why is Apple's revenue here even percentage-based at all? It makes zero sense. According to Apple they need this revenue cut because of the cost of keeping the platform running. If I offer a subscription in my app for 1$/month vs 10$/month what marginal expense is being incurred that apple deserves an extra $2.70 for the higher price?

This is my big problem with it too. The cost of maintaining the app store and the search is the same no matter what the app is. It should be a fixed fee. On the other hand the argument is that all the $0 apps are being subsidized by the paid apps, so they went percentage based so that the cheap apps didn't have a huge fee. It would mean the cheapest paid apps in the app store would be a lot more to absorb the fixed c…

Apple's cost to maintain this ecosystem can't be anything close to the insane $50B in App Store revenue they hauled in last year.

Re: You download the app and it doesn’t work

#290

Post by jpttsn »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #224
jpttsn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t relate to this. Some vendors sell me hardware, and I can bring my own software. Apple sells me more expensive hardware with the software only from their “partners”, which is “curated” and subject to a steep 30% distribution cut. Apple never tricked me into an iPhone believing I could run any random software. I know what I signed up for. Why should I feel entitled to anything else?

Why should software makers share their revenue with Apple? We don’t do it on android, Windows, macOS, linux, or anything else. The only value added by Apple is some kind of vetting (they don’t do code review, they just check that the app meets their recommendations... and they are called RECOMMENDATIONS not REQUIEMENTS). My app was recently rejected because i refused to sell in-app purchases and want to keep purchase…

It’s totally optional; if you don’t want to participate, don’t. Sell your software any way you want outside their store. Take out ads in local papers or something.
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