Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#321

Post by dogma1138 » Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

sebazzz wrote: post #288

vertis wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is a counterexample though. You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. Both Apple and Steam provide discovery and network effects, which help to justify their cut, but, as Jason Fried mentioned[1], you can't opt-out of these discovery benefits with Apple. [1]: https://twitter.com/jasonfried/status/1273655616897273858?s=...

> You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. A better analogue would be that you download WoW free from Steam, then take a subscription at Blizzard. Does Steam allow that?

Steam will get a cut, they have different rates for conversions and micro transactions.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#322

Post by dogma1138 » Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 10:57 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #306

sebazzz wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't have to deliver your PC game through Steam, and many of the big publishers have opted not to. A better analogue would be that you download WoW free from Steam, then take a subscription at Blizzard. Does Steam allow that?

You can buy CD keys from other websites to activate a Steam game, so yes.

Publishers pay for allowing retail key linkage and in most cases today you are buying Steam Keys from markets where these are sold in stores instead of a retail version and Steam gets a cut.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#323

Post by sudosysgen » Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #322

sudosysgen wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can buy CD keys from other websites to activate a Steam game, so yes.

Publishers pay for allowing retail key linkage and in most cases today you are buying Steam Keys from markets where these are sold in stores instead of a retail version and Steam gets a cut.

    Steam keys are meant to be a convenient tool for game developers to sell their game on other stores and at retail. Steam keys are free and can be activated by customers on Steam to grant a license to a product.

    Valve provides the same free bandwidth and services to customers activating a Steam key that it provides to customers buying a license on Steam. We ask you to treat Steam customers no worse than customers buying Steam keys outside of Steam. While there is no fee to generate keys on Steam, we ask that partners use the service judiciously.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys

It seems like this is not the case.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#324

Post by musicale » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 12:02 AM UTC

Apple is certainly an illegal monopoly for not allowing other game/app stores on its handheld devices and dictating the terms and conditions for developers. And hiding behind the DMCA to ban circumvention tools for its intrusive DRM. And competing against its own third-party developers. Bring on the anti-trust lawsuits!

Fortunately we don't have to patronize Apple's evil monopoly on handheld gaming and game/app stores anymore. As for me, I'll go back to playing Animal Crossing, which I bought on Nintendo's eShop on my Nintendo Switch! (Then I'll maybe I'll lay down some tracks with Korg Gadget and write some code in SmileBASIC. Maybe I'll buy some DLC for my favorite games also - all from the Nintendo eShop, naturally.)

/s

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#325

Post by andrei_says_ » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

whycombagator wrote: post #234

Hamuko wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's attitude towards PWA isn't much to build on.

Everything is a trade off ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, especially a monopoly intentionally crippling their browser to make PWAs unusable.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#326

Post by Leherenn » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 8:16 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #282

Leherenn wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, it's a market. If you allow 3rd parties to sell something, you create a market. That market should be free and competitive. If you want to keep it a service, don't allow 3rd parties in.

So Amazon, EBay, the console makers, FaceBook should all offer their markets freely?

Not offer their market freely, but make it competitive, yes.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#327

Post by zimpenfish » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 8:26 AM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #149

scarface74 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix doesn’t allow in app purchases anymore. https://help.netflix.com/en/node/25097 iTunes billing for Netflix is not available to new or rejoining Netflix customers. If you are attempting to create an account on an iOS mobile device, you can sign up on Netflix.com using a mobile browser and will be prompted to provide an alternate method of payment. Neither does Youtube Live. https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/13/21…

This is yet another sure sign that the playing field is not level, and that big companies are treated differently

But that's true of literally any business - e.g. if I go to Warner and ask them to license some music for my game, I'm going to get ignored. If EA want to license music for a game, they'll be getting lavish dinners and a selection of fine wines along with a menu of the new bands Warner want to pimp.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#328

Post by dapole » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 11:18 AM UTC

ViViDboarder wrote: post #316

scarface74 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How well did the mobile developers do before the App Store when they tried to peddle their J2ME apps on feature phones? What are the chances that game developers would entice the whales to buy loot boxes and tokens for pay to win games if not for an easy payment method? Does Amazon provide value with the Kindle? Does Valve with Steam? Amazon market place? eBay? The console makers? The theaters don’t bring too much va…

Kindle: you can load books from other sources, you can also read Kindle books on other devices Steam: you can redeem keys purchased from other stores, install apps from other stores, and they don’t mandate using their system for in app purchases eBay: do they have any policies like this? I haven’t heard much about them or made an eBat purchase in a decade. Amazon Marketplace: There actually is a strong argument here…

I know I’m late here but you buying that steam key from another source means that valve gets its cut anyways. To issue that key they had to give them cut.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#329

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 1:35 PM UTC

davidivadavid wrote: post #292

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, they don't provide the channel, once the app is installed. Not the device; not the network; not the content. They just extract money with rules.

Again, they do provide the channel before the app is installed. If you know the economics of acquisition vs. retention you should understand that the former is usually more expensive/valuable than the latter. I'm perfectly willing to entertain arguments about the right amount Apple should charge for that, but it seems to be an all or nothing discussion, which doesn't seem really sensible to me.

Its the coercive element that is objectionable. They go to extreme lengths to keep their market closed, which is obviously not for your benefit but so they can do this thing. Not because a free market leads folks to adopt the Apple marketplace, because there is no choice.

The lengths folks go to apologize for Apples essential extortion is amazing.

Re: Apple rejects appeal from email app Hey

#330

Post by davidivadavid » Sat, Jun 20, 2020, 7:28 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #329

davidivadavid wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, they do provide the channel before the app is installed. If you know the economics of acquisition vs. retention you should understand that the former is usually more expensive/valuable than the latter. I'm perfectly willing to entertain arguments about the right amount Apple should charge for that, but it seems to be an all or nothing discussion, which doesn't seem really sensible to me.

Its the coercive element that is objectionable. They go to extreme lengths to keep their market closed, which is obviously not for your benefit but so they can do this thing. Not because a free market leads folks to adopt the Apple marketplace, because there is no choice. The lengths folks go to apologize for Apples essential extortion is amazing.

Where's the extortion is the case that needs to be built here. "I can't sell my app at no cost to the most wealthy segment of mobile users" is not a credible complaint.