Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 408 posts

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#391

Post by scarface74 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #70
snowwrestler wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously if Apple owns one platform, and Google owns the other platform, it is not actually the same situation. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. In fact it's arguable that a free marketplace encourages and depends on different companies taking different approaches to meet cu…

Analogous != same. It means its very similar factually. The law does not require that Google and Apple run their online stores the same way, or that Apple interact with Google's store the same way they choose to run their own store. That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a…

if Apple was in fact “violating anti-trust laws”, don’t you think that would have been a problem for 12 years?

Random HN users can’t declare that anti trust laws are being violated and make it a fact. If Apple is violating the law, so is every console maker.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#392

Post by scarface74 »

viridian wrote: post #160
iav wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defining Apple as a monopolist on iOS is like calling Ford a monopolist in selling radios in Ford vehicles. No one thinks it’s a violation for Ford to include their own radio (built by a 3rd party like Bose - same as an app) in a Ford truck, and offer you an expensive upgrade to that radio (say also by Olufsen - also like a better App) if you want it. No one demands that Ford allow a different vendor to sell you a co…

The federal trade commission disagrees with you, and if this is the crux of Apple's defense they are in a bad spot.

The FTC can agree or disagree. Until a judge decides it doesn’t matter.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#393

Post by scarface74 »

kelnos wrote: post #294
Despegar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a condition of using the App Store (i.e., leveraging dominant/monopolistic market position in one market in a non-competitive manner over another market). The reason why everyone has to narrowly define the market to "Apple has monopo…

I too feel a little weird about "iOS app ecosystem" as the definition of a market that matters for anti-trust regulation, but at the same time consider that smartphones are not fungible goods. People generally choose iPhone vs. Android for particular reasons, and then often stay on those platforms because of features that aren't available on the competing platform, or just because they've succumbed to ecosystem lock-…

Name one popular app that is not cross platform? How many apps have people paid for on iOS that are not subscription based and work on both platforms? Most money from apps Ecome from in app purchases from whales of pay to win games or subscriptions. How much data would really need to be “manually re-entered”?

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#394

Post by scarface74 »

oillio wrote: post #171
Despegar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a condition of using the App Store (i.e., leveraging dominant/monopolistic market position in one market in a non-competitive manner over another market). The reason why everyone has to narrowly define the market to "Apple has monopo…

Apple has control of the iOS App market. It is a pretty large barrier for a customer need to switch platforms to get an app that Apple has denied access. I am not a lawyer, but that sure smells like the potential for monopolistic control.

Yes and the consoles have control of their market and Amazon has control over the Kindle.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#395

Post by scarface74 »

munk-a wrote: post #297
tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and raise an exception all the way to city hall that the mall attempting to charge me for running a booth in their property is impeding the free flow of commerce and hurting the local economy Except Apple has never made that argument to anyone. They simply added a way to pay for their subscription directly in their app rather than in the Play Store; Something Google allows.

If I lease space to you on a profit sharing based model (i.e. you don't have to pay any standard rent but you need to forward 20% of what you make in lieu of rent to use the space) and you start giving product away to customers for "free" but then force them to pay the actual price under the table then you're committing fraud. Whether you think 30% of transaction value is a fair price or not for the costs of running…

There is no prohibition to allowing subscriptions outside of the App Store - even at a lower price. Apple is saying you must also allow subscriptions in the store. Whether you agree or not is different.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#396

Post by TheCoelacanth »

selykg wrote: post #388
RonanTheGrey wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're effectively taking the position of "fuck the business for trying to survive". Amazon makes billions, why didn't they just pay the 30%? Because their margins are 5% at best. Survival. Not even wealth. And the argument you're making can ONLY be used to support the position that "well then why isn't Apple just the only company in the world and everyone is forced by law to use them?" Because that's the long-term o…

Not really the stance I'm taking. If your product has such a high overhead that the listed price for that product is so high that if you add the 30% back in no one would buy then you're probably doing a poor job of pricing your product, or your overhead is too high. Basecamp makes money hand over fist. DHH has some of the most expensive sports cars in the world. I would hazard a guess that even at $100/yr, Hey costs…

This feels like crab mentality to me. Basecamp makes peanuts compared to a behemoth like Apple.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#398

Post by sudosysgen »

dwaite wrote: post #378
yyyk wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not exactly the same scenario. If Ford allowed installing radios only via Ford and allowed other companies to sell radios via Ford, but then artificially restricted said radios so that its radios would have an advantage then it would apply, and I suspect that people would be upset. Here's IMHO a better analogy: Apple is running a mall, while also operating a chain store operating in said mall. Apple Mall allow…

> That's not exactly the same scenario. If Ford allowed installing radios only via Ford and allowed other companies to sell radios via Ford, but then artificially restricted said radios so that its radios would have an advantage then it would apply, and I suspect that people would be upset. This happens all the time. Integration of the radio and climate control system/navigation system. Custom wiring for the speaker…

Sure, and if someone makes a radio that fulfills all of these functions, then they can sell it.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#399

Post by ViViDboarder »

madeofpalk wrote: post #326
dwaite wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to understand this position. Apple Music is in the same position as say Spotify on Google's platform as a third party media service. Is the implication that they should operate differently or be held to a different standard than Spotify? I don't believe Apple has argued that collecting alternate payments in-app would be an undesirable for third party developers on the App Store - just that they don't wish to s…

> Is the implication that they should operate differently or be held to a different standard than Spotify? Currently this is the case. Apple Music is held to a different set of rules and standards than Spotify. When Apple Music wants to collect their customer's money from within the Apple Music app , they can do this practically for free - they don't need to forfit 30% of their revenue of that sale to another party.…

Yes, but not on Android. On Android they have the same treatment as other apps.

It’s hypocritical that they get to benefit from the more* level playing field in the Play Store yet force others on their platform to a restrictive policy, but it doesn’t seem contradictory. They are following the Play Store policy and are asking developers in the App Store to follow their policy.

The real question is whether or not their policy is legal.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#400

Post by monadic2 »

Androider wrote: post #328
HatchedLake721 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that worked out very well in 00’s with windows mobile. /s People don’t understand the power of consumer friendly digital experience

Works out just fine on macOS.

I mean it works but “fine” is a pretty low bar for the point of using computers. I say this as an owner of about $50k of macs in my apartment.
Post reply on HN