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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#221

Post by ViViDboarder »

codemac wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

The monopoly in this case is the distribution of iOS applications and payment within them. Breaking that up means allowing other payment options within apps and potentially allowing side loaded applications.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#222

Post by parthdesai »

usaphp wrote: post #184
ryanar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey is arguing that they want the choice to unlist from the app store entirely so their client would never surface in organic search results, and have no IAP link. That way the only audience they gain are from people they themselves marketed to and purchased a subscription on the web. But it's unfair to Apple! They get 0.00 for this! Bullshit. Every Apple customer who wants to use HEY gets a great mobile experience t…

> Basecamp / Hey is providing value to Apple's products by enriching their ecosystem Apple is providing value to Basecamp/Hey by providing a smartphone and an operating system that can run Hey app. "Hey" can simply remove the app from App store and provide a web based version if they don't want to pay for convenience of iOS and iPhone.

They would, but it's a shame that that everyone is forced to use webkit on iOS and for some reason is refusing to implement push notification API need to make PWA's. I wonder what that reason could be.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#223

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

robert_foss wrote: post #218
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really comparing these two? Apple has nowhere near market dominance, in fact, they are currently in second place. IE had a much larger control of the market.

I'd rather say they have complete market dominance. People don't buy phones based on which apps are available for them. And since no alternative stores are available for Apple devices, you have no choice but to pay the Apple tax.

There is an alternative - Android. You aren't forced to pay the Apple tax, there is a far, far more popular alternative there.

If we took this argument and extended it, no business would survive. This is like saying Toyota has a monopoly on it's car transmissions. of course it does - it decides what transmission goes in. Your idea would force it to accept all manufacturers of transmissions.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#224

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #206
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really comparing these two? Apple has nowhere near market dominance, in fact, they are currently in second place. IE had a much larger control of the market.

Apple may own a smaller share of the pie, but it's still significant enough that lacking iOS support can kill a business.

Lots of things can kill a business. Anti-competitive practices are made for the goal of reducing competition.

But the reality is Apple's App Store provides a ton of value to many developers and end users alike.

Just because your business model failed doesn't mean the system is broken or monopolistic.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#225

Post by learc83 »

jcstauffer wrote: post #98

Unpopular opinion: the 30% that Apple charges includes customer acquisition cost. As a thought experiment, if Hey adds In-App Purchase for subscriptions, but everyone who downloads the app has first signed up for their service due to their marketing methods (an increasing likelihood considering this controversy), then nobody will use the In App Purchase, and Hey will send $0.00 to Apple. If someone discovers the App…

You're forgetting about the people who find Hey through some other channel, but sign up through the app anyway.

And because discoverability on the app store is terrible, of the people who sign up through the app, it's very likely that the majority of them won't have discovered it through the app store.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#226

Post by learc83 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #169
BMorearty wrote: post #32

Disclaimer: I only read the subject line and the first paragraph. Years ago, when Internet Explorer had market dominance, I was working on a website and I wanted to use a feature that IE didn’t support yet. I asked a question on a forum about how to do it in IE. One of the replies was "just stop using IE." Dude. It's not for me. It's for my customers.

Are we really comparing these two? Apple has nowhere near market dominance, in fact, they are currently in second place. IE had a much larger control of the market.

If your market segment is customers who are willing to pay for a high end email service, Apple's share of that customer segment is probably much greater than 50%. Large enough that not offering an iOS app will cripple your business.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#227

Post by ogre_codes »

lcnmrn wrote: post #167
ogre_codes wrote: post #136

Everything is a trade-off. I use iOS because I want a smartphone and I'd prefer Apple's restrictions to Google's data-gathering. I'd like to see iOS be better and I'd like to see Apple's App Store policies improved. If I choose to use Apple products because I find the trade-offs inherent in using iOS/ MacOS, I don't lose the right to expect better of them and want those products to improve.

By not using Android you're missing a lot of good free apps that don't display ads.

> By not using Android you're missing a lot of good free apps that don't display ads.

My post wasn't meant to push one perspective or another, merely to point out that wanting your platform to be better doesn't mean you want to switch. If I was on Android, I would complain a lot about Google's advertising policies, then someone would say "Quit whining about Google and just stop using them".

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#229

Post by learc83 »

ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #179
Androider wrote: post #77

If you make something like say, oh an email client, excluding the 1.5 BILLION people on the iOS platform is not just a handicap, it makes your entire business non-viable. So now Apple is the gatekeeper of new businesses and services. Fortune 500's and small one man shops alike have been terrified to speak up against Apple, because Apple has the ability to deliver a death-sentence by kicking you out of their store on…

This is simply not true. There are more on the android platform, and therefore enough for viability. The reality is people want all the benefits of the iOS world without paying anything for it.

>There are more on the android platform, and therefore enough for viability.

Is that true for customers who are interested in a high end email service that costs $100 a year? I'd wager that the vast majority of people in that segment are on iPhones.

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