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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

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Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#151

Post by enriquto »

FakeRemore wrote: post #104
enriquto wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Moreover, for people who are not citizens of the USA (the large majority of the people!), there's no other clear course of action.

> On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether?

> Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether?

I do not have a smartphone and my life is alright, but I was not suggesting that.

You can certainly have a smartphone that is not controlled by neither Google nor Apple. For example, by installing an OS like LineageOS, or even some "freer" stuff that is out there.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#152

Post by koheripbal »

alkonaut wrote: post #120
hkarthik wrote: post #19

If you don’t like how Apple does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how Google does business, stop using their products. If you don’t like how either one does business, stop using technology all together. I am being facetious, but mainly to illustrate the point that we now have a series of entrenched monopolies in the tech world so “stop using X” isn’t a realistic solution.

That’s a very cumbersome a way of getting what I want. It’s much better and easier if e.g the EU simply makes Apple do the right thing by force. The market doesn’t solve this kind of problem.

We already have anti-trust regulations that are supposed to stop these sorts of anti-competitive behaviors.

A company is not allowed to use its position as a "market" to ALSO give an unfair advantage to its own products - or to shut out competitors without reasonable cause.

...but these laws aren't being enforced. It's funny to remember Microsoft being forced to de-couple Internet Explorer from Windows, and yet the idea of de-coupling the app Store from IOS or the Play store from Android does not seem to occur to regulators.

I have a conspiracy theory that they like that American companies have this market strangle-hold and are unwilling to give market share to EU or Chinese competitors. Imagine all the data collect lost!

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#153

Post by Androider »

codemac wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

You don't need to be a monopoly to have antitrust action taken against you, you just need to have sufficient market power and engage in behavior which is anti-competitive.

House Antitrust Committee chairman David Cicilline yesterday:

“Because of the market power that Apple has, it is charging exorbitant rents — highway robbery, basically — bullying people to pay 30 percent or denying access to their market,” said Rep. Cicilline. “It’s crushing small developers who simply can’t survive with those kinds of payments. If there were real competition in this marketplace, this wouldn’t happen.”

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/18/21295778/apple-app-store-...

Oh it is possible to get Apple to change. Not by asking nicely, but perhaps by carrying a big stick. The arrogance Apple displays today is much the same as Microsoft back in the day. Let's hope for a similar outcome as back then, which fundamentally changed Microsoft for the better. It's possible, but not if we don't try.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#154

Post by hellisothers »

jcstauffer wrote: post #98

Unpopular opinion: the 30% that Apple charges includes customer acquisition cost. As a thought experiment, if Hey adds In-App Purchase for subscriptions, but everyone who downloads the app has first signed up for their service due to their marketing methods (an increasing likelihood considering this controversy), then nobody will use the In App Purchase, and Hey will send $0.00 to Apple. If someone discovers the App…

This is a great nuance that seems to be being lost in the holy war.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#155

Post by lalos »

What I find interesting is that developers usually complain about the one time app purchase, saying that this doesn't incentivize big updates and the way around it is to use in-app purchases. Some even propose an update app fee. Also, developers complain that Apple is squeezing a fee from every transaction. Which seems like the same problem, Apple wants that constant stream of revenue just like developers want that constant stream of revenue to incentivize updates. Anybody else notices this symmetry?

On a side note, this could be fixed with

1) Unpopular apps don't pay a fee until they reach a certain amount of downloads. This promotes apps created by devs just starting out. 2) Fees only apply until an upper limit is met which corresponds to the total cost they generate. i.e. Every year the count resets, the first 50k downloads have 30% fee, the next 100k have a 20% fee, the next 200k have a 10% fee, etc.

If you play with this parameters there might be a win-win scenario for everybody. I wonder if Apple will propose something before EU or USA governments start looking deeper into the problem. I'm guessing Apple and Google lobbyist are measuring the temperature of Congress right now to see how to proceed.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#156

Post by stOneskull »

kilo_bravo_3 wrote: post #49

Nooooo!!!! I am sustained by Apple hatred. It is an essential part of my balanced diet. Every time someone complains about how expensive Apple is I grow a centimeter and every time someone bitches about their App Store policies I gain a month of lifespan. I am now 40km tall and will live for 50,000 years but ultimately a lack of whining about Apple would see me wither away and die.

when those old folks warned of worshipping false idols, i wonder if they could've imagined these big shiny apples and Gs

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#158

Post by shadowgovt »

CydeWeys wrote: post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

But people have been speaking up for years.

At what point do the people speaking up just stop using the thing that they dislike so much?

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#159

Post by koheripbal »

buo wrote: post #121
13415 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What mobile phone and which operating system for it do you use, if I may ask?

I use a $20 LG feature phone. I don't know what OS it runs, but it's not Android.

Ok, but then you've given up on an entire technology set. You haven't avoided Apple and Android, you've avoided the tech entirely.
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