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Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

rudism.com

141–150 of 333 posts

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Moreover, for people who are not citizens of the USA (the large majority of the people!), there's no other clear course of action.

> On the other hand, for us "tech people" it is actually easier to stop using Google and Apple and serve as example for others. Pushing for anti-monopoly legislation needs not be the only thing that we do to solve that problem. Are you suggesting people stop using smartphones altogether?

There are services that operate on Android with open source implementations of the Google proprietary services which have been designed for lock-in. https://e.foundation packages up the work from Lineage and MicroG and sells phones with the software preinstalled.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#143
...Apple stepped in and essentially said "Nah, fuck that, you either implement in-app subscriptions in your app and give us our 30% or you can go suck an egg"...

For the record they actually said https://twitter.com/dhh/status/1272976901762478080/photo/1

...but thanks for translating it into mid-oughts hip-hopper mixed with 1940s farmer/GI/zoot-suiter!

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not a stakeholder for buying a computer. You seem to have a very confused view of the consumer role legally and historically. Giving them money for a product does not give you a real voice. Argue for that first. Otherwise you may as well argue you’re a stakeholder to a tree.

A customer is an external stakeholder. They do have a voice, but at a large scale / low % of revenue, it may be not be very loud. If no one enjoyed the shade of a tree, it wouldn’t cease to exist. If customers stopped paying a business, they likely would.

>A customer is an external stakeholder.

Customers used to have more choice, this made them highly valued stakeholders.

Before the era of permanent rolling mandatory updates and new releases customers (And IT managers) had to be convinced a new version had more value than the software it was replacing.

Windows Vista, DOS 4 And numerous other software failed to get traction because the value of new features was too low vs the pain points.

Now days the focus is on shareholder value not customer needs.

Locking in customers and maximising revenue is far more important than marking software better for the end user or IT teams.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#145
post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Not just about this title for this particular subject but dismissing people by telling them to just stop using or go elsewhere is also bad for almost everything else in life.

Applying the same logic for: - "Whining" customers: just go use someone else product; you are going to miss new ideas and paint points that you can solve - "Whining" about country or politics - imagine the phrase "if you don't like your leaders of your country, just leave the country and go somewhere else"; it's absurd. - "Whining" about family and friends: just stop hanging out with them; most people have no choice to change who they are with... - "Whining" about social media fake news: just stop using it. ...

We don't need to go to all variations but this is not the right mindset.

That logic is usually used by monopolies, dictators and so on to shut up people. Don't fall into that argument trap.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#146
Wow, this is a long-winded semi-rant that goes through a lot of contradictory points. Summing up, it seems to take two opposite sides, the first aligned with the title:

1) Don't take legal action against Apple because "think of all the ways that precedent could be abused against other companies" and "it seems silly to me to cry about monopolies", so "The solution is obvious. Stop making apps for iOS" because if you "can’t survive without the ability to suckle at Apple’s teat then you’ve made bad decisions" and "Stop buying iPhones" and "Don’t buy Macs while you’re at it"

...but the second totally opposed to it:

2) "In reality, I know none of these solutions are actually going to come to fruition", "Maybe the ultimate solution is an anti-trust legal one", and "My hopes for such legal action ever succeeding are not particularly high."

But as in most cases, reality isn't that black and white. The author is ultimately correct in saying "boycott Apple" is simply not viable, as it should be -- it would be like taking a sledgehammer to level a nail. Unfortunately, the author is being incredibly condescending and unrealistic that a business shouldn't depend on the iOS market, which is something like 2/3 of all mobile app store revenue.

But government intervention here doesn't mean a slippery slope -- that's a common but totally unfounded fallacy. Economists are well acquainted with all the different ways markets can fail, and how targeted governmental remedies are required for healthy market competition to function.

Identifying that Apple is abusing its market position in one area to stifle competition in another is easy to show, if we write appropriate legislation to define it (applying to Amazon etc. as well). The only question is what remedy best serves consumers: whether to treat this like a monopoly situation that gets broken up (force Apple to allow apps and app stores that bypass Apple's walled garden) or regulated like public utilities (the security and trustworthiness of the App Store is valuable, so set a yearly profit limit of e.g. 12% to that segment of the company).

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#147

Unpopular opinion: the 30% that Apple charges includes customer acquisition cost. As a thought experiment, if Hey adds In-App Purchase for subscriptions, but everyone who downloads the app has first signed up for their service due to their marketing methods (an increasing likelihood considering this controversy), then nobody will use the In App Purchase, and Hey will send $0.00 to Apple. If someone discovers the App…

Hey is arguing that they want the choice to unlist from the app store entirely so their client would never surface in organic search results, and have no IAP link. That way the only audience they gain are from people they themselves marketed to and purchased a subscription on the web.

But it's unfair to Apple! They get 0.00 for this!

Bullshit.

Every Apple customer who wants to use HEY gets a great mobile experience to encourage them to keep buying Apple products. If enough services like Dropbox, Netflix, Spotify, were not available on iPhone, the consumer might purchase the Android phone on their next upgrade, or the company might switch their fleet to Android devices that actually support their business software.

Basecamp / Hey is providing value to Apple's products by enriching their ecosystem. They should have the choice if they want to pay a 30% cut for organic search traffic in Apple's App Store.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#148
post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

> This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal

It's even worse than that. Even if you leave Apple ecosystem, you are still subject to it. Consumers don't like paying different prices based on the platform they are using. They will feel cheated. For this reason, app and service developers almost always price their products the same across all platforms. If a service developer estimates that 50% of the service's customers end up signing up through Apple Pay and pay the Apple tax, which one of these scenarios do you think will happen:

1) The developer will just eat the loss and will not take Apple's cut into their calculations of what the pricing should be at all;

2) They charge users who sign up through Apple 30% more;

3) They charge everyone the same. In order to negate the effect of Apple tax, their prices end up being higher than they otherwise would have been. Everyone, Apple user or not, ends up paying 15% higher.

I would wager that number 3 is what happens in almost all instances. You cannot not pay the Apple tax, even if you never use Apple.

On a side note, I am so surprised that so many people see this as a fight between Apple and developers. They view the Apple tax as something developers pay and thus is developers' problem, not theirs. Like any tax, ultimately, we the consumers end up paying it. It may be indirect, but it is coming out of our pocket. And it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I would have to pay more than $1000 to buy a device, and then get nickel-and-dimes by Apple to actually use the said device.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#149
post #47
post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple isn't a monopoly as per law, there are plenty of other device manufacturers to choose from, and in some markets iDevices aren't even available.

The traditional understanding of monopolies does not seem so useful in this case.

We live a world where there are two walled gardens that control everything you do. They are both lovely and nice, and you can choose which you pick, but in both, everything you do owned by the landlord. Even how we communicate is controlled, and talking to people in the other garden is degraded. (iMessage and FaceTime).

Even if both walled gardens have 50% marketshare, there is no monopoly, but is that really the world we want to live in? Taking your business to the other walled garden is not an incentive to either company to build shorter walls.

It seems we need to be talking about regulating vertical integration and walled gardens, not monopolies.

Re: Quit whining about Apple and just stop using them

#150
post #85
post #3

"Whining" is an overly prejudicial word choice for this title. These are legitimate issues people have with what Apple is doing, not mere whining. This echoes the "if you don't like it so much then just leave instead of speaking up" dismissal that is so commonly used as a lampshade for suppressing dissent. Not sure if that's the intent here but that's what it comes off as. And this point from the article needs to be…

Apple is not a monopoly! They have a majority (not monopoly) on a very specific US-based market. They aren't the only US market, and they are a small international market. Apple isn't even the #1 handset manufacturer (they are #3 or #4 depending on who you ask), and far and away isn't the #1 laptop manufacturer. The attitude that it is a monopoly is exactly the disconnect between this article and your comment. The ar…

I‘m more and more of the opinion that oligolipolies (multi-monopolies) should be treated the same as monopolies. Just because there is more than a single provider still does not mean there is a free market and consumers have actual choice. Google and Apple both pull extremely anticompetitive behavior lately and the excuse of „just switch to the other side“ bypasses reality. There are quite a lot of studies that free markets start working only if there are more than 4 parties left to compete with significant market share.

Citations missing since I‘m on mobile.

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