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Analysis of SwissCovid app

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Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#11

Post by flattone »

rob74 wrote: post #10
jamisteven wrote: post #4

"Although the source code of the app is available, we cannot compile it, run it, and make it work without signing an agreement with Apple or Google. We do not find it compatible with the notion of open source." <-- Isnt this the case with every app?

I wonder what alternative they would propose? If you want people to be able to use your app, you have to support the most popular app platforms, and if that means signing and agreement with Apple and/or Google, you have to do that. Anything else is "ivory tower" thinking.

I think it’s pretty obvious? You describe the situation as if it has been discovered as a law of physics to which all humans are subject.

Change the system... honor open source principles.

If ivory tower thinking means, improved state of affairs, then.. ok... ? Call it whatever you want haha.

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#12

Post by nix23 »

rob74 wrote: post #10
jamisteven wrote: post #4

"Although the source code of the app is available, we cannot compile it, run it, and make it work without signing an agreement with Apple or Google. We do not find it compatible with the notion of open source." <-- Isnt this the case with every app?

I wonder what alternative they would propose? If you want people to be able to use your app, you have to support the most popular app platforms, and if that means signing and agreement with Apple and/or Google, you have to do that. Anything else is "ivory tower" thinking.

Its no about platform but using proprietary stuff, you should be able to compile and run it on a complete opensource android without the proprietary parts.

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#13

Post by nix23 »

jaclaz wrote: post #3

Setting apart the technical parts, this is IMHO preoccupying : > NCSC states that "Users can always turn off tracing if they are in what they consider to be a sensitive environment". Data (location and/or contacts) is either sensitive data or is it not (according to local Laws), the concept of "less sensitive data that I can risk being not protected" as opposed to "more sensitive data that - to be safe - I must exclu…

True but it's plausible deniability (empty batteries), or activate the developer-mode on android and fake the coordinates (not cheating the wife, but still a work)

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#15

Post by rob74 »

flattone wrote: post #11
rob74 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what alternative they would propose? If you want people to be able to use your app, you have to support the most popular app platforms, and if that means signing and agreement with Apple and/or Google, you have to do that. Anything else is "ivory tower" thinking.

I think it’s pretty obvious? You describe the situation as if it has been discovered as a law of physics to which all humans are subject. Change the system... honor open source principles. If ivory tower thinking means, improved state of affairs, then.. ok... ? Call it whatever you want haha.

I'm against the walled gardens of Apple, Google, Amazon etc. too, I'm just saying that if you want to launch an app for which it is especially important that as many people as possible should be able to use it, you have to think pragmatically...

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#16

Post by [deleted] »

jamisteven wrote: post #4

"Although the source code of the app is available, we cannot compile it, run it, and make it work without signing an agreement with Apple or Google. We do not find it compatible with the notion of open source." <-- Isnt this the case with every app?

[deleted]

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#17

Post by rob74 »

nix23 wrote: post #12
rob74 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what alternative they would propose? If you want people to be able to use your app, you have to support the most popular app platforms, and if that means signing and agreement with Apple and/or Google, you have to do that. Anything else is "ivory tower" thinking.

Its no about platform but using proprietary stuff, you should be able to compile and run it on a complete opensource android without the proprietary parts.

I think that's the second point in the list:

> A big part of the contact tracing protocol (which was originally the DP3T protocol) is implemented by Apple-Google in a part of the system called GAEN. This part has no available source code although the law requires disclosure of the source code of all components of the system.

Since the first point is separate from that, it must be referring to something else?!

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#19

Post by rob74 »

niea_11 wrote: post #8
dignick wrote: post #5

>A big part of the contact tracing protocol (which was originally the DP3T protocol) is implemented by Apple-Google in a part of the system called GAEN. This part has no available source code although the law requires disclosure of the source code of all components of the system. By the same logic, this would seem to require all of iOS and Android to be open source. Where does the "App" end and the underlying OS and…

They argue that GAEN is part of the Play Services on Android. And that the app was designed to work at first with DP3T protocol which (I'm not sure) requires only access to bluetooth on the device. But DP3T was replaced with GAEN. (This just my understanding from the web page and wikipedia, I'm not familiar with all of this :) ) To justify such exclusion, SwissCovid promoters argue that GAEN is part of the operating…

Purely speculating, but the reason for GAEN being part of Play Services is probably that otherwise it would require an OS update to be installed, which means ~80% of the Android phones being used "out in the wild" would be incompatible (Ok, maybe a bit less in Switzerland). And (even more speculative), the reason for using GAEN instead of DP3T may be battery usage? So you could build a theoretically pure open source implementation, but then nobody would use it because it drains their battery twice as fast as normal...

Re: Analysis of SwissCovid app

#20

Post by [deleted] »

rob74 wrote: post #17
nix23 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its no about platform but using proprietary stuff, you should be able to compile and run it on a complete opensource android without the proprietary parts.

I think that's the second point in the list: > A big part of the contact tracing protocol (which was originally the DP3T protocol) is implemented by Apple-Google in a part of the system called GAEN. This part has no available source code although the law requires disclosure of the source code of all components of the system. Since the first point is separate from that, it must be referring to something else?!

[deleted]
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