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Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

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Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#111

Post by papito »

colinramsay wrote: post #5

We discussed this at work. It's smug in a way that I can't articulate. Our first thought was that it was a typo, then we found the actual part of their website that tells us "no, it's not a typo". Thanks for that guys, I appreciate you changing my expectation to meet your contrived brand of UX design. edit: typo :D

They committed the cardinal sin of design - not keeping it simple. People will think IT IS A TYPO, because it looks like one, especially in the age of zero attention spans. Very few will go on a quest to figure it out.

With new products, humans need an anchor to familiar features in order to feel comfortable.

What Makes Things Cool https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/what-ma...

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#112

Post by zimpenfish »

bradly wrote: post #105
HeXetic wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think they can do with their custom API that IMAP can't? IMAP has server-side search and a file-based representation of things like configuration. It may not be as easy to write as a JSON API, but once you do, the interface is flexible enough to really accomplish anything.

Can IMAP snooze messages?

That'd be down to the IMAP server to support, I suspect, but you could certainly have one that understood the logic - "if there's a message in Snoozed and it's older than X, move it to Inbox". If you have access to your mail, you could do it yourself with a shell script and cron.

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#113

Post by maxsilver »

agloeregrets wrote: post #80
knowledge-clay wrote: post #70

HEY looked interesting until I found out they don't support IMAP. When I think about the problems with email, I don't think primarily about the interface, but about the fact that the open standards on which it is based are increasingly being ignored.

That’s all super fair, but they also argue this direction allows them to innovate as well. Notably, their direction resembles a rails approach and lets the server do more work. (Because Hey is instead just a standard API client, whereas the client can tell the server things that you just can’t do with IMAP.) I imagine with the Apple situation they are working on adding support currently however, even if it’s reduced.…

> They need an iOS plan B.

I hope they don't. Apple needs to feel the pain their evil and immoral behaviour is inflicting on the world.

In a perfect world, the government would force them to behave ethically. Absent that, Hey's stance here is the next best thing.

If folks like Basecamp don't start standing up to Apple, then nothing stops Apple from just outright killing the majority of mobile software development. And while it's not directly their fault, at some point iPhone users need to recognize that their purchase of an iPhone is directly funding the destruction of the innovative / creative software they claim to want to have.

If you like Hey, maybe stop buying a phone that's trying to murder Hey. If you run a company like Hey, maybe stop giving in to the mafia's extortion demands.

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#114

Post by dbbk »

tguedes wrote: post #110
dbbk wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the obvious solution is to implement IAP. This is what Apple says they need to do. That said, they don't have to give up 30% of their revenue, they could make it more expensive to sign up via IAP if they wanted to offset the loss. Not great for the consumer, but at least it would work.

No you cannot do this. Apple does not allow you to put a higher price on iOS than other places. Also the issue is Apple's inconsistency. Netflix and Spotify do the exact same thing HEY is trying to do but Apple has done nothing for them because of this bullshit distinction between consumer and business apps??? Why do consumers apps not need IAP but business apps do? What they're doing is exactly what mafias do. Look…

They removed the price restriction in 2011. https://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/09/apple-reverses-course-o...

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#115

Post by HatchedLake721 »

agloe_dreams wrote: post #27
trollied wrote: post #8

Has anyone used this service, and why should someone ditch their current provider to use it? All I've seen is the founder kicking off about Apple murdering kittens, which put me off looking any further. I've got my own domain hosted on google apps, and it just works. Rarely get spam, I'm used to the UI, I don't want to change my email address because I don't need to. Having said the above, I guess I am not the target…

Apple's behavior here is actually pretty horrible and definitely illegal but yeah DHH has been hilariously loud in his war here. Granted he probably has to be to fight the largest company in the world with 50 people. I’ve been using it for about 3 days so far. The product is pretty great regardless of the funny spelling, they are launching a business version in a few months to allow you to bring your own custom domai…

I believe you're downvoted for saying "Apple's behavior here is actually pretty horrible and definitely illegal" without any substance.

Apple is not doing anything illegal (future regulations might change that), nor anything horrible.

There might be conflicts of interest between App Store and likes of Apple Music and Spotify having to pay IAP fees, but there's nothing wrong with 15-30% distributor fee to access a unified market of 155 countries where all the headache of payments, local sales taxes, APIs, etc are taken care of.

People forget the 2000s with Windows Mobile, CAB files and xda-developers, and the 50% shops take to get your software/game distributed and on a shelf in front of customers.

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#116

Post by knowledge-clay »

swyx wrote: post #95
knowledge-clay wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s all super fair, but they also argue this direction allows them to innovate as well. That's true, but I would argue, perhaps somewhat conservatively, that email is an area where we don't want or need much innovation. Email works fine and has for decades. In many cases, "innovation" (except at the protocol level) has made things worse.

I mean, good for you, but all that proves is that you're not their target audience.

I believe that there is such a thing as good, responsible engineering practices, such as supporting open standards, that companies ought to to irrespective of "target audience". I'm not saying using IMAP is a better user experience and that everyone should use it, but I believe that any email provider has a responsibility to support IMAP.

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#117

Post by dewey »

zimpenfish wrote: post #107
dewey wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their whole "filtering everything out until you whitelist the sender" approach which is the one feature that sets HEY apart from the other providers wouldn't really work with normal IMAP. As for IMAP with more JSON there would also be Fastmails https://jmap.io/

> Their whole "filtering everything out until you whitelist the sender" approach Unless I'm missing something about what they're doing, this is a basic SIEVE script that filters anything not explicitly whitelisted into a folder.

This has a bit of a "I can build Dropbox with a bunch of shell scripts over the weekend" vibe. I'm sure there's a bit more to it than that. How would you whitelist things in your regular IMAP client? Manually moving things to the IMAP Inbox and which then marks them as whitelisted somehow?

You could probably build that with a bunch of hacks but you'll not get a polished consumer friendly feature out of that. They are not in competition with people running mutt and a bunch of custom scripts, it's more of an alternative for people using Gmail with Gmail apps currently and don't even know what's IMAP.

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#118

Post by bronson »

imchillyb wrote: post #106
knowledge-clay wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That’s all super fair, but they also argue this direction allows them to innovate as well. That's true, but I would argue, perhaps somewhat conservatively, that email is an area where we don't want or need much innovation. Email works fine and has for decades. In many cases, "innovation" (except at the protocol level) has made things worse.

I would argue that their non-standard implementation will make transitioning away from their service impossibly difficult. The fact they don't support the widely supported IMAP means no easy way to move away. This is vendor lock-in to their walled-garden. This approach should be killed, dead, before it ever makes it to the end user.

Transitioning away sounds easy: https://hey.com/faqs/#if-i-don-t-like-hey-can-i-export-my-em...

Re: Show HN: Automatically Rename HEY's 'Imbox' to 'Inbox'

#119

Post by askjdlkasdjsd »

Wow, I find it amazing how some innocent founders find their posts/tweets/etc blocked, ignored or shadowbanned and somehow, if you're someone, you get attention everywhere for free.

Doesn't seem very fair. I thought at this point hacker news' spam detectors would flare up and stop bumping everything 'Hey' to the top.

Not trying to put on a tinfoil hat but, there is simply no way in hell to get this level of PR and attention unless a significant portion of all Hey activities have been carefully and methodically planned for weeks and months.

I deal with the same difficulties myself and the App store mafia cut is a real problem but I just don't think I'll ever be able to trust them again with such aggressive PR tactics.

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