Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

support.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 408 posts

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#381

Post by dwaite »

KillerDiller wrote: post #245
spullara wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone could get a developer account and compile the code and deploy it to their phone if the app owner released the source code.

This could be a crucial argument in that it distinguishes between the essential freedom of device owners to decide what software to run, and the freedom of device manufacturers to decide which apps to sell in their stores and at what terms (still subject to anti-trust laws). Unfortunately, the $99 annual fee per developer account nullifies any possible mass-market sideloading possibilities. (Imagine what could happen…

While there are restrictions, free developer accounts can support installation onto your own devices.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#382

Post by dwaite »

kelnos wrote: post #284
fortytw2 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure google allows you to do this though, so Apple isn't bypassing any "rules" on android.

Perhaps the parent's use of "contradictory" wasn't so great; I would say "hypocritical" would be better. This isn't about doing anything legal or illegal, or violating or not violating anyone's terms of service. It's simply pointing out that Apple, when given a choice, would rather use an external payment processor (in order to pay lower fees) when building an app for a platform they don't control... while at the sam…

> It's simply pointing out that Apple, when given a choice, would rather use an external payment processor (in order to pay lower fees) when building an app for a platform they don't control... while at the same time denying people the ability to do that on their own platform.

Apple explicitly allows apps like Spotify and Netflix to use external payment processors on iOS via their developer guidelines.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#383

Post by dwaite »

jfk13 wrote: post #302
ses1984 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Google ban bypassing their stores on Android?

Their policy explicitly permits it for this category of sales.

Apple permits external payment processing for this category as well (Spotify, Netflix)

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#384

Post by dwaite »

jonny_eh wrote: post #83
fortran77 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it all depend on the contracts/agreements in place? If Google has a different agreement than Apple, why would the same terms apply?

It undercuts Apple's argument that they "need" to have this limitation in place, since clearly their largest competitor doesn't "need" to do it.

Subscription media apps on iOS are allowed to use external payment processing.

A hypocritical position would be having users do initial sign-up (including creation of an Apple ID with billing information) in-app on Android.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#385

Post by ksec »

iav wrote: post #141
Despegar wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's correct. But the law does require them to run the stores in a way that does not violate antitrust laws. Apple is violating antitrust laws by forcing companies to use Apple Pay as a condition of using the App Store (i.e., leveraging dominant/monopolistic market position in one market in a non-competitive manner over another market). The reason why everyone has to narrowly define the market to "Apple has monopo…

Defining Apple as a monopolist on iOS is like calling Ford a monopolist in selling radios in Ford vehicles. No one thinks it’s a violation for Ford to include their own radio (built by a 3rd party like Bose - same as an app) in a Ford truck, and offer you an expensive upgrade to that radio (say also by Olufsen - also like a better App) if you want it. No one demands that Ford allow a different vendor to sell you a co…

Except there are hundreds of Cars manufacture to chose from, easily portable, and all share the same public road transport.

You have two system to choose from, Apple and Google.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#386

Post by entha_saava »

Mindwipe wrote: post #162
zachruss92 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, my stance here is that Google is pretty reasonable with their guidelines compared to Apple. My biggest issue in the iOS vs Android debate is that apple is behaving monopolistically and Google isn't. Using the respective app stores give publishers an inherent audience to distribute/sell content through. I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple/Google to try to profit off of the audience they've built. W…

If it makes some people in this thread feel better, Google also acts in many ways that are breaches of competition law, just in different ways!

But nothing compared to anti-competitive measures and dishonest marketing of apple.

Apple puts severe restrictions on developers, that they should develop on macs, that they should use Apple's IAP features, that they should provide 'sign in with apple' (although last one may be reasonable). They even tried to prevent cross platform application frameworks some years ago, by mandating that apps should be written in C/C++/ObjC.

And the dishonest marketing is well known.

Apple promoted swift, fine. But, since they couldn't implement GC in swift because Cocoa interop, some apple people (or maybe fanboys, apple's negative cost marketing strategy is its cult) attempted to make it look like ARC is competitive advantage against Android.

Apple is a patent troll. They sued samsung for some trivial things. They trademarked the word 'app store'. They patent trivial programming language features like optional chaining.

Apple is much more harmful than Google. HN defends web technologies and apple apparently because many here are invested in it (although often they are at odds). But please don't support a patent troll like apple.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#388

Post by selykg »

RonanTheGrey wrote: post #322
selykg wrote: post #72

I'm really having a hard time wrapping my head around why this is such a huge deal to people. Opinions are fine, everyone can have one but I always see Apple's payment options as a massive win as a consumer. 1. Subscriptions are easily monitored from a single page. 2. Before subscriptions renew I get emailed, not all services do this, shame on those that do not and a magic renewal transaction goes through without not…

You're effectively taking the position of "fuck the business for trying to survive". Amazon makes billions, why didn't they just pay the 30%? Because their margins are 5% at best. Survival. Not even wealth. And the argument you're making can ONLY be used to support the position that "well then why isn't Apple just the only company in the world and everyone is forced by law to use them?" Because that's the long-term o…

Not really the stance I'm taking.

If your product has such a high overhead that the listed price for that product is so high that if you add the 30% back in no one would buy then you're probably doing a poor job of pricing your product, or your overhead is too high.

Basecamp makes money hand over fist. DHH has some of the most expensive sports cars in the world.

I would hazard a guess that even at $100/yr, Hey costs less than 50% of that to actually run. Similar email services cost around $50/yr give or take $10, and they're making profit at that cost.

I don't particularly want to line DHH's pockets even more. Now, admittedly Basecamp pays their employees pretty well so that's a consideration, too. I'm all for the normal employees getting paid well, but I don't think someone like DHH should be making money like he is. Every time I see him bitching about this topic on Twitter I immediately think "oh, he's going to buy himself another one off Koenigsegg from the profits of this"

Na. DHH gets no love from me. I'd feel more sorry for the smaller developers, but DHH, nope, not gonna be on his side ever.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#389

Post by davidg109 »

factorialboy wrote: post #21
davidg109 wrote: post #16

Agree with comments. Apple is about shareholder value, like it or not. They are not a non-profit agency.

So what if underage slave labor is employed? Share holder value #1.

Last time I checked, underage slave labor is illegal? Kinda, sorta different. But good try.

Re: Apple Music on Android requires its own payment details to avoid Google 30% cut

#390

Post by davidg109 »

jrockway wrote: post #79
factorialboy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if underage slave labor is employed? Share holder value #1.

There is clear law on that issue: https://oag.ca.gov/SB657 Right now, there is no law that app stores have to be open, or that they have any certain policies. Certainly, there is appetite for that law. Another comment says that Google Music costs 30% more on iOS, but Apple Music costs the same on both platforms. That is never a good look, but it is not clear that it is illegal. A law could be passed to make it illega…

Yes to this. Here’s where I agree Apple aren’t angels.
Post reply on HN